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| Test results 'may need scrapping' | Test results 'may need scrapping' |
| (9 minutes later) | |
| The head of one of the main education unions says the national curriculum test results may need to be annulled. | The head of one of the main education unions says the national curriculum test results may need to be annulled. |
| The "Sats" results in England have been delayed by technical and administrative problems at the company running the tests this year, ETS Europe. | The "Sats" results in England have been delayed by technical and administrative problems at the company running the tests this year, ETS Europe. |
| National Association of Head Teachers leader Mick Brookes said there were now reports of marking problems. | National Association of Head Teachers leader Mick Brookes said there were now reports of marking problems. |
| A House of Commons committee is set to ask the head of the exams watchdog for an explanation on Monday. | A House of Commons committee is set to ask the head of the exams watchdog for an explanation on Monday. |
| Mr Brookes said some schools had not had their children's test scripts returned, some had had them returned unmarked, some had been returned to the wrong schools. | Mr Brookes said some schools had not had their children's test scripts returned, some had had them returned unmarked, some had been returned to the wrong schools. |
| But the greater concern was that the "hot house" pressure on the markers to get the job done "is bound to lead to greater mistakes". | But the greater concern was that the "hot house" pressure on the markers to get the job done "is bound to lead to greater mistakes". |
| This was particularly so in English, and in the writing element of the English tests, which was far more time consuming than the simpler right or wrong answers in maths. | This was particularly so in English, and in the writing element of the English tests, which was far more time consuming than the simpler right or wrong answers in maths. |
| Extent | Extent |
| Mr Brookes mentioned as evidence e-mails the BBC News website has been getting, reporting problems. | Mr Brookes mentioned as evidence e-mails the BBC News website has been getting, reporting problems. |
| FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME More from Today programme | FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME More from Today programme |
| The most recent of these include a report that ETS has sent one school in Lancashire boxes of unmarked test scripts belonging to schools. | The most recent of these include a report that ETS has sent one school in Lancashire boxes of unmarked test scripts belonging to schools. |
| Others say children of varying abilities have all been awarded the same mark. | Others say children of varying abilities have all been awarded the same mark. |
| Mr Brookes said it was too early to quantify the extent of the problems. | Mr Brookes said it was too early to quantify the extent of the problems. |
| "So we are saying that if there are widespread problems in the marking and the quality of the marking then this year's tests - publication of them - should be scrapped." | "So we are saying that if there are widespread problems in the marking and the quality of the marking then this year's tests - publication of them - should be scrapped." |
| 'Cruel' | 'Cruel' |
| The chief executive of the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA), which is ultimately responsible for the tests, Ken Boston, is to be questioned on Monday by the select committee in an emergency session. | The chief executive of the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA), which is ultimately responsible for the tests, Ken Boston, is to be questioned on Monday by the select committee in an emergency session. |
| But the committee chair, Barry Sheerman, said talk of the results having lost credibility was premature. | But the committee chair, Barry Sheerman, said talk of the results having lost credibility was premature. |
| "We will get to the bottom of this, we'll make a report and I think you'll find the delays have been sorted out. | "We will get to the bottom of this, we'll make a report and I think you'll find the delays have been sorted out. |
| "Let's think of the students here. How cruel would it be if your children suddenly had worked for a year and they said, these results aren't coming out, they don't count." | "Let's think of the students here. How cruel would it be if your children suddenly had worked for a year and they said, these results aren't coming out, they don't count." |
| Marking reviews | Marking reviews |
| The results were supposed to have been delivered last Tuesday, but the delay means those from the tests taken by 11-year-olds (Key Stage 2) should be published online on 15 July and those taken by 14-year-olds (Key Stage 3) sometime after that. | The results were supposed to have been delivered last Tuesday, but the delay means those from the tests taken by 11-year-olds (Key Stage 2) should be published online on 15 July and those taken by 14-year-olds (Key Stage 3) sometime after that. |
| England's National Assessment Agency (NAA), which now oversees the testing and is a subsidiary of the QCA, has told schools to submit requests for reviews of the marking by the end of term if possible. | England's National Assessment Agency (NAA), which now oversees the testing and is a subsidiary of the QCA, has told schools to submit requests for reviews of the marking by the end of term if possible. |
| It adds: "Schools are not however expected to complete review applications outside of term time and where schools are unable to submit review applications before 25 July, then requests should be submitted by 10 September 2008." | It adds: "Schools are not however expected to complete review applications outside of term time and where schools are unable to submit review applications before 25 July, then requests should be submitted by 10 September 2008." |
| The end of term has passed already in some areas: all schools in Leicestershire, for example, broke up for the summer holiday last Friday. | The end of term has passed already in some areas: all schools in Leicestershire, for example, broke up for the summer holiday last Friday. |
| The NAA says the test papers have been marked largely by the same experienced markers as in previous years. | The NAA says the test papers have been marked largely by the same experienced markers as in previous years. |
| "As in previous years, markers were trained by senior examiners in the use of the mark schemes, and did not commence live marking until they reached the required standard of proficiency. | "As in previous years, markers were trained by senior examiners in the use of the mark schemes, and did not commence live marking until they reached the required standard of proficiency. |
| "During the marking cycle, and for the purpose of quality assurance, each marker's quality of marking was checked up to five times to ensure that they continued to mark according to the national standard. | "During the marking cycle, and for the purpose of quality assurance, each marker's quality of marking was checked up to five times to ensure that they continued to mark according to the national standard. |
| "Markers who had drifted from the mark scheme were given further training or had their work terminated, and their papers were remarked. This process was more rigorous than last year." | "Markers who had drifted from the mark scheme were given further training or had their work terminated, and their papers were remarked. This process was more rigorous than last year." |
| Have you had trouble with the test results? Let us know using the form below. Here are some of those received: | Have you had trouble with the test results? Let us know using the form below. Here are some of those received: |
| Unfortunately the system, designed to rank schools, not only puts pressures on professionals, it also places pressures on the pupils. Some children,and indeed adults, are not suited to academic work. Yet, the may be excellent bricklayers or hairdressers or whatever. This creates issues for these children within the schools and elsewhere. It is high time, tables were done away with, and real individualised learning took place.K Darling, Leicestershire | Unfortunately the system, designed to rank schools, not only puts pressures on professionals, it also places pressures on the pupils. Some children,and indeed adults, are not suited to academic work. Yet, the may be excellent bricklayers or hairdressers or whatever. This creates issues for these children within the schools and elsewhere. It is high time, tables were done away with, and real individualised learning took place.K Darling, Leicestershire |
| I am the Headteacher of a small Primary School, and Chair of our local Cluster of schools. Several schools have indicated problems with scripts returned. We have instances of wrong adding up of marks and another school is contesting ten papers. This is a farce.Steve McTegart, Henley on Thames, UK | I am the Headteacher of a small Primary School, and Chair of our local Cluster of schools. Several schools have indicated problems with scripts returned. We have instances of wrong adding up of marks and another school is contesting ten papers. This is a farce.Steve McTegart, Henley on Thames, UK |
| My son was due to get his SATS on Friday. He has worked really hard and was quite stressed about the tests. He has been totally focussed on getting the results and how it affects his classes at High School. He came home almost in tears last week about this. Totally unacceptable. What can be done to make it better? STOP OUTSOURCING! Clear and simple. Bound to fail if you can't control it yourself. And what 'compensation' to the children? These are kids for heaven's sake and should not have this happening to them!Tracey, Norwich, England | My son was due to get his SATS on Friday. He has worked really hard and was quite stressed about the tests. He has been totally focussed on getting the results and how it affects his classes at High School. He came home almost in tears last week about this. Totally unacceptable. What can be done to make it better? STOP OUTSOURCING! Clear and simple. Bound to fail if you can't control it yourself. And what 'compensation' to the children? These are kids for heaven's sake and should not have this happening to them!Tracey, Norwich, England |
| I have marked KS2 Science, and have done so since inception. Yes, there have been problems, but I received training on time, received all my scripts (a little late), completed marking on time and even marked international scripts, on time! I am experienced at marking and have been graded a top marker for some time now. | I have marked KS2 Science, and have done so since inception. Yes, there have been problems, but I received training on time, received all my scripts (a little late), completed marking on time and even marked international scripts, on time! I am experienced at marking and have been graded a top marker for some time now. |
| STOP blaming the markers for the fiasco. It is the organisation that has gone sadly and dramatically wrong this year and I suspect it would be down to QCA accepting the cheapest bid for the contract. Peter West, Morton, Lincs | STOP blaming the markers for the fiasco. It is the organisation that has gone sadly and dramatically wrong this year and I suspect it would be down to QCA accepting the cheapest bid for the contract. Peter West, Morton, Lincs |
| I think its ridiculous and highly unfair on those poor children who have worked so hard. Having been scared of tests, sat exams bravely. I have a sister who is very intelligent and is waiting eagerly for her resultsRoshan Daud, Bolton | I think its ridiculous and highly unfair on those poor children who have worked so hard. Having been scared of tests, sat exams bravely. I have a sister who is very intelligent and is waiting eagerly for her resultsRoshan Daud, Bolton |
| Through my own experience I have always seen SATs as a complete waste of time with rarely accurate results. During my own SATs I was also taking a GCSE in Maths however my SAT grade of a relatively standard '6' did not reflect my ebility in mathematics. My target grade of '8' or 'Exceptional Performance' was unattainable due to a paper that I still found difficult to garner any marks from during my A-Level years. My teachers response was that it meant nothing to my future as our teachers were aware of our abilities and would ensure we were in classes that challenged and motivated us. The fact that SAT grades are given for all subjects aside from Maths, English and Science without examination or submission to the government and based upon observed ability and achievement show that SATs are Government benchmarkers. They are of no benefit to the children studying them and are another headache for the teachers trying to teach them subjects, not how to pass exams.Ian Buckle, Weymouth, Dorset | Through my own experience I have always seen SATs as a complete waste of time with rarely accurate results. During my own SATs I was also taking a GCSE in Maths however my SAT grade of a relatively standard '6' did not reflect my ebility in mathematics. My target grade of '8' or 'Exceptional Performance' was unattainable due to a paper that I still found difficult to garner any marks from during my A-Level years. My teachers response was that it meant nothing to my future as our teachers were aware of our abilities and would ensure we were in classes that challenged and motivated us. The fact that SAT grades are given for all subjects aside from Maths, English and Science without examination or submission to the government and based upon observed ability and achievement show that SATs are Government benchmarkers. They are of no benefit to the children studying them and are another headache for the teachers trying to teach them subjects, not how to pass exams.Ian Buckle, Weymouth, Dorset |
| We got our sons report on Friday with SAT results for Maths and Science and the English results will be sent to us in September.Mrs Dewitt, Rochdale | We got our sons report on Friday with SAT results for Maths and Science and the English results will be sent to us in September.Mrs Dewitt, Rochdale |
| "Let's think of the students here. How cruel would it be if your children suddenly had worked for a year and they said, these results aren't coming out, they don't count." | "Let's think of the students here. How cruel would it be if your children suddenly had worked for a year and they said, these results aren't coming out, they don't count." |
| Hang on a second? I thought we weren't supposed to be getting our kids primed and geared up for the tests! What is worrying about Barry Sheerman's comment is that it shows a complete lack of understanding about the weight of these tests, the mountain of evidence of a regime in disarray and he seems to be signalling already that the 'teething problems' argument is about to be wheeled out and used yet again.Pauline, Leicester | Hang on a second? I thought we weren't supposed to be getting our kids primed and geared up for the tests! What is worrying about Barry Sheerman's comment is that it shows a complete lack of understanding about the weight of these tests, the mountain of evidence of a regime in disarray and he seems to be signalling already that the 'teething problems' argument is about to be wheeled out and used yet again.Pauline, Leicester |
| i spent 4 hrs a night revising for the test i hope that my hard work will pay off with a well marked piece of work i think its a shambles!bradley gibson, Milton Keynes | i spent 4 hrs a night revising for the test i hope that my hard work will pay off with a well marked piece of work i think its a shambles!bradley gibson, Milton Keynes |
| What did Mr Balls say recently ""I don't want to see excuses about poor performance ..." well it would seem that the answer is to just keep quite when there is poor performance. Mr Balls has!Paul McCarthy, Bolton | What did Mr Balls say recently ""I don't want to see excuses about poor performance ..." well it would seem that the answer is to just keep quite when there is poor performance. Mr Balls has!Paul McCarthy, Bolton |
| I've been marking as part of the marking panel for KS2 Science, and want to assure people that the markers I encountered were committed to doing the very best they could to see that children's scripts were accurately and consistently marked, despite the administration 'problems'. I can't comment on overall standards, as I know many new markers were recruited this year; some experienced markers were deterred from marking as they weren't happy with the way the process was to be run.Jackand | I've been marking as part of the marking panel for KS2 Science, and want to assure people that the markers I encountered were committed to doing the very best they could to see that children's scripts were accurately and consistently marked, despite the administration 'problems'. I can't comment on overall standards, as I know many new markers were recruited this year; some experienced markers were deterred from marking as they weren't happy with the way the process was to be run.Jackand |
| My wife is a qualified teacher who has marked exams in previous years but not this one. One reason she stopped was the more for less philosophy of the marking business. Every year they would change the system which meant that quicker marking was required for less money. They also moved away from teachers marking their own subjects to marking any subject eventually outsourcing to India because they could't get enough qualified teachers to mark in the UK. The solution is simple, give the work back to be organised by DofE avoid making education a business for profit. Jack Flowers, Morden | My wife is a qualified teacher who has marked exams in previous years but not this one. One reason she stopped was the more for less philosophy of the marking business. Every year they would change the system which meant that quicker marking was required for less money. They also moved away from teachers marking their own subjects to marking any subject eventually outsourcing to India because they could't get enough qualified teachers to mark in the UK. The solution is simple, give the work back to be organised by DofE avoid making education a business for profit. Jack Flowers, Morden |
| My 11 year old daughter went for a transition day to her new school last week. They were unable to put the children into their class groups as normal due to the absence of Sats results. This uncertainty only adds to the stress of going to a new school. I am very cross about this as it is unnecessary and the children are adversely affected by it.Minnie, Northumberland, UK | My 11 year old daughter went for a transition day to her new school last week. They were unable to put the children into their class groups as normal due to the absence of Sats results. This uncertainty only adds to the stress of going to a new school. I am very cross about this as it is unnecessary and the children are adversely affected by it.Minnie, Northumberland, UK |
| Last year we had some very bizarre marking in our key stage two writing papers. Children who had gained places at selective schools were getting the same results as children with quite marked literacy problems caused us to look closely at the papers. They had been marked by some one who was mad, drunk or bad. We were then told that the school staff could remark the papers as long as it did not change the overall mark for English! Our Chair wrote a letter of complaint to Mr Balls who got some one else to write and tell us that all would be well this year as the contract was going to a new company. I have since read that the new company is using the same markers as the old company. While most markers are skilled professionals it is clear that there are still too many people doing the job who are not up to the mark. (Excuse the pun.)M-J Taylor, Kingston, England. | Last year we had some very bizarre marking in our key stage two writing papers. Children who had gained places at selective schools were getting the same results as children with quite marked literacy problems caused us to look closely at the papers. They had been marked by some one who was mad, drunk or bad. We were then told that the school staff could remark the papers as long as it did not change the overall mark for English! Our Chair wrote a letter of complaint to Mr Balls who got some one else to write and tell us that all would be well this year as the contract was going to a new company. I have since read that the new company is using the same markers as the old company. While most markers are skilled professionals it is clear that there are still too many people doing the job who are not up to the mark. (Excuse the pun.)M-J Taylor, Kingston, England. |
| Sats are a complete waste of time, no one is interested in the results , my own childrens results were meaningless, they prevent teachers educating children , a complete futile waste of taxpayers money and teachers time J Davis, Cambs | Sats are a complete waste of time, no one is interested in the results , my own childrens results were meaningless, they prevent teachers educating children , a complete futile waste of taxpayers money and teachers time J Davis, Cambs |
| An experienced examiner of AL and GCSE, I was involved with KS3 from the beginning. It was always a shambles, requiring far too many markers, who were often inexperienced teachers, ill-qualified, with low standards themselves and/or marking just for the money. The tales of frantic marking during weekends at hotels cannot be a surprise to Mick Brookes or anyone else; it's happened for years, and still is in some AL subjects right now. The problem lies with the venality of the boards, now profit-making businesses and so determined to get the maximum number of bums on seats, to do which they compete to lower standards to attract said bums; with their chief markers/examiners,who are making so much money from the system that they'll do anything to stay in the job, and if that means pushing for more lenient marking, making false claims about rising standards, then that's what they'll do; the teachers, who are often interested only in teaching to the test and in many cases incapable of doing more than that, having gone through the same worthless system themselves to gain "qualifications" which say little about their ability, lack subject knowledge, interest and enthusiam and when they mark or examine are prepared to do exactly as they are told to produce the rerquired results, which have little or nothing to do with the ability of the candidates but everything to do with getting the figures the government want! To change all this would mean abolishing the exam boards and bringing in a single board, closely monitored externally by those with no vested interests, but it would also require as markers/examiners massively more intellectually- able subject-specialist teachers than are being churned out at presentJan Thomas, Nottingham, England | An experienced examiner of AL and GCSE, I was involved with KS3 from the beginning. It was always a shambles, requiring far too many markers, who were often inexperienced teachers, ill-qualified, with low standards themselves and/or marking just for the money. The tales of frantic marking during weekends at hotels cannot be a surprise to Mick Brookes or anyone else; it's happened for years, and still is in some AL subjects right now. The problem lies with the venality of the boards, now profit-making businesses and so determined to get the maximum number of bums on seats, to do which they compete to lower standards to attract said bums; with their chief markers/examiners,who are making so much money from the system that they'll do anything to stay in the job, and if that means pushing for more lenient marking, making false claims about rising standards, then that's what they'll do; the teachers, who are often interested only in teaching to the test and in many cases incapable of doing more than that, having gone through the same worthless system themselves to gain "qualifications" which say little about their ability, lack subject knowledge, interest and enthusiam and when they mark or examine are prepared to do exactly as they are told to produce the rerquired results, which have little or nothing to do with the ability of the candidates but everything to do with getting the figures the government want! To change all this would mean abolishing the exam boards and bringing in a single board, closely monitored externally by those with no vested interests, but it would also require as markers/examiners massively more intellectually- able subject-specialist teachers than are being churned out at presentJan Thomas, Nottingham, England |
| I finished my marking (Science KS3) on 22nd June yet have been unable to submit the marks because the button on the website page won't let me. I ring and email all the time but they still have not amended the page for me so my marks have yet to enter the system despite haveing been marked 3 weeks ago. The lady on the help line suggested I print off a page from the website and write on all the scores and post it in. That would take me forever as there were over 700 papers and about 20 seperate marks for each paper and the scope for errors would be huge. ETS do not deserve to continue with their contract. On the plus side I have been paid the money already for the marking. If they fix the website I will send my marks, if not I don't really care anymore I am so fed up.frustrated, worcester | |
| What this debacle highlights is the futility of testing. My children are home educated and therefore don't bother with exams. In general, home-educated children have no problems either getting into university or getting jobs or (very often) simply starting their own businesses. It is perhaps time to reflect on whether children are learning anything useful or interesting by working towards standardised tests. My proposals regarding educational reform focus on play-based , child-centred learning: Teachers should be facilitators and co-learners rather than experts and disciplinarians. And schools should be community resource centres where children can go play, do sports or music or art, learn stuff that interests them or just hang out with their friends. WB Yeats: "Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." Gary Orman, London | |