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| Le Pen-Macron Debate in France Quickly Turns Vicious | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| PARIS — Marine Le Pen and Emmanuel Macron faced each other on Wednesday evening in their only head-to-head debate before a runoff election on Sunday for the French presidency. The debate quickly turned vicious; she portrayed him as a heartless and unpatriotic capitalist, while he called her a self-serving liar and a dangerous extremist. | |
| The debate, scheduled to last two hours and 20 minutes, began with opening statements in which each candidate attacked the other. Ms. Le Pen, smiling and mocking in tone, tried to tie Mr. Macron to the deeply unpopular President François Hollande, under whom he served as economy minister. | |
| “Mr. Macron is the candidate of savage globalization,” Ms. Le Pen said, portraying herself as a defender of the small businesses and farmers and Mr. Macron, a former investment banker, as a soulless financier who serves the interests of big business and the European Union. She said he would promote a capitalist “war of all against all.” | “Mr. Macron is the candidate of savage globalization,” Ms. Le Pen said, portraying herself as a defender of the small businesses and farmers and Mr. Macron, a former investment banker, as a soulless financier who serves the interests of big business and the European Union. She said he would promote a capitalist “war of all against all.” |
| Mr. Macron cast Ms. Le Pen as the heir to an ugly far-right tradition in France. “Over 40 years in this country, we’ve had Le Pens who’ve been candidates for the presidency,” he said, tying Ms. Le Pen to her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen, who founded the far-right National Front and who ran for president in 2002. | Mr. Macron cast Ms. Le Pen as the heir to an ugly far-right tradition in France. “Over 40 years in this country, we’ve had Le Pens who’ve been candidates for the presidency,” he said, tying Ms. Le Pen to her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen, who founded the far-right National Front and who ran for president in 2002. |
| Mr. Macron said the question was whether the French wanted “the spirit of defeat,” and said that in contrast,“I carry the spirit of French conquest, because France has always succeeded, France has always succeeded in the world.” | Mr. Macron said the question was whether the French wanted “the spirit of defeat,” and said that in contrast,“I carry the spirit of French conquest, because France has always succeeded, France has always succeeded in the world.” |
| The first question was about the top issue — the economy, and in particular the unemployment rate, which is particularly high among the young. | The first question was about the top issue — the economy, and in particular the unemployment rate, which is particularly high among the young. |
| “We must give our small and medium-size enterprises the opportunity to create more jobs,” Mr. Macron said, urging simplification of regulations and making it easier for businesses to start — and to fail. “Your strategy is simply to say a lot of lies and say everything that is wrong in the country, but you are not proposing anything,” he told Ms. Le Pen. | “We must give our small and medium-size enterprises the opportunity to create more jobs,” Mr. Macron said, urging simplification of regulations and making it easier for businesses to start — and to fail. “Your strategy is simply to say a lot of lies and say everything that is wrong in the country, but you are not proposing anything,” he told Ms. Le Pen. |
| Ms. Le Pen retorted that Mr. Macron represented only corporate interests. “You do not think of the best interests of the nation,” she said. “You defend private interests.” She referred sarcastically to “your friends with whom you get drinks at La Rotonde,” referring to a dinner Mr. Macron had at a ritzy Paris restaurant after the first round of the election, a meal that has been used to portray him as out of touch. | Ms. Le Pen retorted that Mr. Macron represented only corporate interests. “You do not think of the best interests of the nation,” she said. “You defend private interests.” She referred sarcastically to “your friends with whom you get drinks at La Rotonde,” referring to a dinner Mr. Macron had at a ritzy Paris restaurant after the first round of the election, a meal that has been used to portray him as out of touch. |
| The conversation then turned to a Whirlpool tumble dryer factory in Amiens, Mr. Macron’s hometown, that is threatened with closure. Mr. Le Pen made a surprise visit to the plant last week as Mr. Macron was meeting with union leaders; some workers jeered him, although he mollified some of them by discussing their concerns. | |
| The debate then turned to the topic of government investment in large companies. At that point, Mr. Macron said Ms. Le Pen was playing with voters by proposing a sovereign investment fund, which he said already existed. | |
| “Don’t play with me,” she told him, sharply. | |
| “I’m not playing with you — that’s sad,” he replied. “In the case of Whirlpool, you are proposing nothing.” He said of the workers, “You play with their anger, Ms. Le Pen.” | |
| Mr. Macron came in first, and Ms. Le Pen placed second, in the first round, on April 23, edging out nine other candidates, including François Fillon from the center-right Republicans; Benoît Hamon, the Socialist candidate; and the far-left candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon. | Mr. Macron came in first, and Ms. Le Pen placed second, in the first round, on April 23, edging out nine other candidates, including François Fillon from the center-right Republicans; Benoît Hamon, the Socialist candidate; and the far-left candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon. |
| Sunday will be the first runoff election in the history of the French Fifth Republic, which began in 1958, without a candidate from the two major parties participating. Mr. Fillon and Mr. Hamon have thrown their support to Mr. Macron, but Mr. Mélenchon has demurred, saying only that he could not vote for Ms. Le Pen. | Sunday will be the first runoff election in the history of the French Fifth Republic, which began in 1958, without a candidate from the two major parties participating. Mr. Fillon and Mr. Hamon have thrown their support to Mr. Macron, but Mr. Mélenchon has demurred, saying only that he could not vote for Ms. Le Pen. |
| Ms. Le Pen, unlike Mr. Macron, is a political veteran, and has more debates under her belt. But this is the first time that a far-right politician has made it to the second round of a debate. | Ms. Le Pen, unlike Mr. Macron, is a political veteran, and has more debates under her belt. But this is the first time that a far-right politician has made it to the second round of a debate. |
| In 2002, when Ms. Le Pen’s father reached the second round of the elections, his center-right opponent, Jacques Chirac, refused to debate him, saying that to do so would contribute to the normalization of “hate and intolerance.” Mr. Le Pen called it a “pathetic cop-out.” | In 2002, when Ms. Le Pen’s father reached the second round of the elections, his center-right opponent, Jacques Chirac, refused to debate him, saying that to do so would contribute to the normalization of “hate and intolerance.” Mr. Le Pen called it a “pathetic cop-out.” |
| While Mr. Macron and Ms. Le Pen jousted twice in the first-round debates alongside some or all of the nine other candidates, they have never faced off head-to-head. | While Mr. Macron and Ms. Le Pen jousted twice in the first-round debates alongside some or all of the nine other candidates, they have never faced off head-to-head. |
| Historically, France’s second-round presidential debates are fine-tuned events that attract millions of viewers, etching the best quips and comebacks into France’s collective memory. | Historically, France’s second-round presidential debates are fine-tuned events that attract millions of viewers, etching the best quips and comebacks into France’s collective memory. |
| But the debates have never significantly turned the tide in favor of one candidate, in part because they occur at a stage in the campaign when most voters have made up their minds. Polls still predict that Mr. Macron will prevail on Sunday with about 60 percent of votes. | But the debates have never significantly turned the tide in favor of one candidate, in part because they occur at a stage in the campaign when most voters have made up their minds. Polls still predict that Mr. Macron will prevail on Sunday with about 60 percent of votes. |