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In Response to Trump, a Dutch Minister Launches ‘She Decides’ In Response to Trump, a Dutch Minister Launches ‘She Decides’
(about 1 hour later)
President Trump last month signed an executive order barring American aid to international organizations that discuss abortion as a family-planning option with clients. American law already forbids the use of taxpayer money to fund the procedure itself.President Trump last month signed an executive order barring American aid to international organizations that discuss abortion as a family-planning option with clients. American law already forbids the use of taxpayer money to fund the procedure itself.
In Europe, the president’s order brought an unexpected response. Lilianne Ploumen, 54, minister of foreign trade and development cooperation in the Netherlands, established a nongovernmental organization, She Decides, to raise money for aid groups whose funding is threatened under the new order.In Europe, the president’s order brought an unexpected response. Lilianne Ploumen, 54, minister of foreign trade and development cooperation in the Netherlands, established a nongovernmental organization, She Decides, to raise money for aid groups whose funding is threatened under the new order.
The Dutch ministry announced a donation of 10 million euros to She Decides, and Belgium and Denmark followed with matching grants. In March, representatives of 19 governments will convene in Brussels to see what else they can do to make up for the shortfall in American funding.The Dutch ministry announced a donation of 10 million euros to She Decides, and Belgium and Denmark followed with matching grants. In March, representatives of 19 governments will convene in Brussels to see what else they can do to make up for the shortfall in American funding.
I spoke with Ms. Ploumen by Skype last week. Our conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity and space.I spoke with Ms. Ploumen by Skype last week. Our conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity and space.
Q. What was your reaction when you heard about President Trump’s order?Q. What was your reaction when you heard about President Trump’s order?
A. Well, of course, I was very disappointed and a little bit shocked because, you know, this is 2017. You would have expected that in 2017 the rights of women and girls to be the masters of their own bodies and their own sexual lives would be something matter-of-fact.A. Well, of course, I was very disappointed and a little bit shocked because, you know, this is 2017. You would have expected that in 2017 the rights of women and girls to be the masters of their own bodies and their own sexual lives would be something matter-of-fact.
Did you think, “What can I do to counter this?”Did you think, “What can I do to counter this?”
Yes. And if you’re a minister of foreign trade and development cooperation, one of the good things is that you can do something. That’s why I came up with this idea of creating this fund.Yes. And if you’re a minister of foreign trade and development cooperation, one of the good things is that you can do something. That’s why I came up with this idea of creating this fund.
I talked to my staff about it. They were a little cautious at first. They thought we should do this with other countries and start negotiating with the others. I thought if you start the long process of negotiating, you don’t know what happens before we get to a result.I talked to my staff about it. They were a little cautious at first. They thought we should do this with other countries and start negotiating with the others. I thought if you start the long process of negotiating, you don’t know what happens before we get to a result.
I said, “Let’s take the initiative and if others follow, yes! If others don’t, we’ll still have done the right thing.”I said, “Let’s take the initiative and if others follow, yes! If others don’t, we’ll still have done the right thing.”
What was the response when you reached out to your counterparts in other countries?What was the response when you reached out to your counterparts in other countries?
Most thought it was an amazing initiative and were pleased. I have to say that my Belgium counterpart, Alexander De Croo, he was the most swift of all. He immediately said, “We’re going to help — not only to donate money, but we’re going to organize and host this conference.”Most thought it was an amazing initiative and were pleased. I have to say that my Belgium counterpart, Alexander De Croo, he was the most swift of all. He immediately said, “We’re going to help — not only to donate money, but we’re going to organize and host this conference.”
By then, we’d had an overwhelming response. For a couple of days, She Decides was my 24-hour task, which was great but I really needed help. The Swedes, the Danes, the Finns, Luxembourg, Canada — they’ve all been supportive. Cape Verde said, “We will support this,” which is really great because this is not only about, you know, the Nordics. We want this to be global.By then, we’d had an overwhelming response. For a couple of days, She Decides was my 24-hour task, which was great but I really needed help. The Swedes, the Danes, the Finns, Luxembourg, Canada — they’ve all been supportive. Cape Verde said, “We will support this,” which is really great because this is not only about, you know, the Nordics. We want this to be global.
When you reached out to counterparts in other countries, did any turn you down?When you reached out to counterparts in other countries, did any turn you down?
Well, some said, “We support the cause, but we also want to be sensitive to our relations with the United States.”Well, some said, “We support the cause, but we also want to be sensitive to our relations with the United States.”
It’s up to every country, of course, to make their decision. We have nine so far who support the initiative and will speak out for it. There are some 19 countries now interested in attending the March 2 meeting.It’s up to every country, of course, to make their decision. We have nine so far who support the initiative and will speak out for it. There are some 19 countries now interested in attending the March 2 meeting.
There are countries that want to talk about reproductive health but are a little hesitant about “reproductive rights.” And there are countries that feel that “pro-choice” might be difficult for their own public. Some of them need more time, though we hope they will join us in Brussels.There are countries that want to talk about reproductive health but are a little hesitant about “reproductive rights.” And there are countries that feel that “pro-choice” might be difficult for their own public. Some of them need more time, though we hope they will join us in Brussels.
How much have you raised so far?How much have you raised so far?
I think we have 30 million euros from the Netherlands, Denmark and Belgium. That’s great, but it’s not enough.I think we have 30 million euros from the Netherlands, Denmark and Belgium. That’s great, but it’s not enough.
At the Brussels meeting we will ask for more commitments. There’s also a crowdfunding platform where citizens can contribute. We are talking to the private sector, to N.G.O.s, to gain stronger support.At the Brussels meeting we will ask for more commitments. There’s also a crowdfunding platform where citizens can contribute. We are talking to the private sector, to N.G.O.s, to gain stronger support.
Many Americans have called and said, “How can we contribute?” The thing is we want to make sure that this becomes something that stays. Probably around $600 million will have to be raised to make up for what is being lost through the gag rule. Many Americans have called and said, “How can we contribute?” The thing is we want to make sure that this becomes something that stays. Probably around $600 million a year will have to be raised to make up for what is being lost through the gag rule.
There are researchers who say that when the rule was in place previously, it had the unintended effect of increasing the abortion rate in parts of the developing world. If that’s accurate, could it happen again?There are researchers who say that when the rule was in place previously, it had the unintended effect of increasing the abortion rate in parts of the developing world. If that’s accurate, could it happen again?
Yeah, definitely. Because the organizations that will lose funds deliver a very broad range of services: mother and child medical care, contraceptives, sexual education for young people. If people cannot get low-cost condoms or any information on how to protect themselves, this might lead to pregnancies that people really didn’t plan for.Yeah, definitely. Because the organizations that will lose funds deliver a very broad range of services: mother and child medical care, contraceptives, sexual education for young people. If people cannot get low-cost condoms or any information on how to protect themselves, this might lead to pregnancies that people really didn’t plan for.
And that, in turn, might make some people ask for an abortion, which of course in many countries is not done under very safe conditions. That’s why we support broad services.And that, in turn, might make some people ask for an abortion, which of course in many countries is not done under very safe conditions. That’s why we support broad services.
I don’t think anyone has an abortion because she wants to. There’s always a reason she makes that decision. But if you have access to sex education and to birth control, then you often don’t have to have an abortion.I don’t think anyone has an abortion because she wants to. There’s always a reason she makes that decision. But if you have access to sex education and to birth control, then you often don’t have to have an abortion.
I just heard from a woman who works in our embassy in Senegal. She got word from her mother and sister who live in a remote village. They told her, “This cannot be. It will mean that women will get pregnant again without wanting to be. It will mean that our girls won’t get sex education as they have for the past five years. It will change our community.”I just heard from a woman who works in our embassy in Senegal. She got word from her mother and sister who live in a remote village. They told her, “This cannot be. It will mean that women will get pregnant again without wanting to be. It will mean that our girls won’t get sex education as they have for the past five years. It will change our community.”
Have you personally witnessed the impact of these types of services in the developing world?Have you personally witnessed the impact of these types of services in the developing world?
I was in Brazil a few years ago. Abortion is legal only if the pregnancy puts the life of the mother in danger or is the result of a rape. There isn’t choice. And so there’s a lot of illegal abortion.I was in Brazil a few years ago. Abortion is legal only if the pregnancy puts the life of the mother in danger or is the result of a rape. There isn’t choice. And so there’s a lot of illegal abortion.
For the women, the experience is traumatic. First, there is the shock of an unplanned pregnancy, and then you have find someone in a back alley in often very unsafe conditions.For the women, the experience is traumatic. First, there is the shock of an unplanned pregnancy, and then you have find someone in a back alley in often very unsafe conditions.
One has to say, though, that Brazil is a very strong supporter of women’s rights. But it is a very Catholic country. We hope that Brazilian women will continue to have access to services for medical reasons. By the way, I am a Catholic myself.One has to say, though, that Brazil is a very strong supporter of women’s rights. But it is a very Catholic country. We hope that Brazilian women will continue to have access to services for medical reasons. By the way, I am a Catholic myself.
Really?Really?
Yes. Some people think that when you’re Catholic, you just do as you’re told. But being Catholic is basically about forming your own conscience within certain rules and regulations. My mom always taught me that your own conscience is your basic frame of reference.Yes. Some people think that when you’re Catholic, you just do as you’re told. But being Catholic is basically about forming your own conscience within certain rules and regulations. My mom always taught me that your own conscience is your basic frame of reference.
There’s an election scheduled in the Netherlands in late March. In advance polling, a right-wing populist appears to be making a strong showing. What happens to She Decides if he wins?There’s an election scheduled in the Netherlands in late March. In advance polling, a right-wing populist appears to be making a strong showing. What happens to She Decides if he wins?
Well, listen, we always have coalition governments. And that means that whoever is in those governments will need to compromise. I’m a Social Democrat, and I’m confident that we will have a good result in the elections.Well, listen, we always have coalition governments. And that means that whoever is in those governments will need to compromise. I’m a Social Democrat, and I’m confident that we will have a good result in the elections.
This 10 million euros goes to She Decides whoever will be in government. We know that it is such a strong movement in the Netherlands that regardless of any party, it will continue.This 10 million euros goes to She Decides whoever will be in government. We know that it is such a strong movement in the Netherlands that regardless of any party, it will continue.