This article is from the source 'bbc' and was first published or seen on . It will not be checked again for changes.

You can find the current article at its original source at http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk_politics/7432685.stm

The article has changed 11 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.

Version 1 Version 2
Ministers sense terror vote shift Smith hopeful over 42 days vote
(about 4 hours later)
Confidence is growing among ministers that the threat of a government defeat over plans to extend detention without charge of terror suspects is receding. Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says she is hopeful the government will win its bid to extend detention of terror suspects without charge from 28 days to 42 days.
Colleagues of Home Secretary Jacqui Smith believe concessions made by her to rebels have won some of them over. She told the BBC she is "not giving up" efforts to win over up to 50 Labour rebels: "I hope we've moved to a set of proposals people feel able to support."
At a meeting with Labour MPs on Monday, Ms Smith said safeguards would ensure the proposed 42-day limit would be used only in exceptional circumstances. But it is unclear how many potential rebels have been won over.
The Conservatives, Lib Dems and dozens of Labour MPs remain opposed. From those who have spoken, Frank Doran says he now backs the plans - but John Grogan and David Winnick still oppose.
'Shifting ground' Ms Smith has tried to make her case to doubters in a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday evening and in a string of media interviews.
Home Office Minister Tony McNulty said he now believed a vote in the Commons next week could be won in the wake of Ms Smith's pledges. 'Careful' thought
He told BBC Radio 5 Live: "Things do seem to be shifting back to the government's way. She insists safeguards would ensure the proposed 42-day limit would be used only in "grave and exceptional" circumstances.
"There's still a lot of work to do, but I'm very hopeful." She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We believe that it is right now to bring into place this reserve power, which won't mean anybody being held longer, but will give us the ability to go and make a case to the judge about a given individual.
We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish John Grogan Labour MP Labour rebel watch
"Any home secretary using these powers will want to think very, very carefully about how they are going to explain it to Parliament, whether or not they are going to get parliamentary approval," she said.
MPs may also be given "independent legal advice" about the home secretary's decision "to help to inform that debate".
"What I'm concerned about is that we do the right thing for the UK, the right thing for people's rights, and that is that we avoid a terrorist attack as well as the rights that we completely and importantly have to afford to defendants," she said.
'Lot of work to do'
"Finding that balance is a difficult job: that's why we've been talking about it for so long, and it's why I hope we've moved to a set of proposals that people feel able to support."
A number of Conservatives, Lib Dems and dozens of Labour MPs remain opposed to the plans.
But police minister Tony McNulty said he now believed a vote in the Commons next week could be won in the wake of Ms Smith's pledges.
Mr McNulty told BBC Radio 5 Live he believed those opponents appeared "to be shifting back to the government's way".
"There's still a lot of work to do, but I'm very hopeful," he said.
'Powerful speech'
Aberdeen North MP Frank Doran had planned to vote against the government, but said he had now changed his mind.Aberdeen North MP Frank Doran had planned to vote against the government, but said he had now changed his mind.
He said the "ground is shifting" and although a hard-core of rebels would not be moved, "those in the middle who have had doubts will have heard a lot [from Jacqui Smith] that will have satisfied them". We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish John Grogan, Labour MP He said the "ground is shifting" and although a hard-core of rebels would not be moved, "those in the middle who have had doubts will have heard a lot [from Jacqui Smith] that will have satisfied them".
Ms Smith's concessions are likely to include an earlier Parliamentary vote on any decision to allow a terror suspect to be held for 42 days, a shorter period in which the powers could be used, and a tight definition of the circumstances in which they could be implemented.
Currently terrorist suspects can be held for up to 28 days before they have to be charged or released without charge.
The concessions offered to Labour rebels - previously thought to number about 50 - are expected to be outlined in the form of amendments to the Counter-Terrorism Bill. MPs are to vote on the proposals next week.
Leaving Monday evening's meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, Ms Smith said there had been a "constructive discussion" about the promised strengthening of proposals.
'No evidence'
She said MPs should accept her proposals "if they are serious about the security of the country".
But Labour MP John Grogan said while Ms Smith had made a "powerful speech", he was still not convinced she had made the case on security grounds for extending the 28-day limit.But Labour MP John Grogan said while Ms Smith had made a "powerful speech", he was still not convinced she had made the case on security grounds for extending the 28-day limit.
He told the BBC: "We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish. Reluctantly, I still can't support the government."He told the BBC: "We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish. Reluctantly, I still can't support the government."
Another rebel, David Winnick, said: "I haven't changed my views in anyway whatsoever. I don't believe there's any evidence to go beyond 28 days. Mr Winnick, said: "I haven't changed my views in anyway whatsoever. I don't believe there's any evidence to go beyond 28 days."
"I regret that the measure is going to go, apparently through." Other concessions are likely to include an earlier Parliamentary vote on any decision to allow a terror suspect to be held for 42 days, a shorter period in which the powers could be used, and a tight definition of the circumstances in which they could be implemented.
Speaking on Monday, Mr Brown re-emphasised his arguments in favour of extending the time limit. Currently terrorist suspects can be held for up to 28 days before they have to be charged or released without charge.
He said the "scale and complexity" of the terrorist threat facing Britain provided compelling evidence of the need to increase the amount of time suspects could be held without charge. The concessions are expected to be outlined in the form of amendments to the Counter-Terrorism Bill. MPs are to vote on the proposals next week.
'Desperation'
On Monday, Mr Brown said the "scale and complexity" of the terrorist threat facing Britain provided compelling evidence of the need to increase the amount of time suspects could be held without charge.
Security services are pursuing about 2,000 terrorists, 30 potential plots and 200 networks, he said.Security services are pursuing about 2,000 terrorists, 30 potential plots and 200 networks, he said.
Writing in Tuesday's Daily Telegraph, Former Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Peter Clarke, said the 28-day limit would "undoubtedly" soon be insufficient and criticised the politicisation of the debate over the issue.Writing in Tuesday's Daily Telegraph, Former Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Peter Clarke, said the 28-day limit would "undoubtedly" soon be insufficient and criticised the politicisation of the debate over the issue.
'Desperation' Justice Secretary Jack Straw has accused the Tories of behaving in an "unprincipled" manner over the controversial proposals.
Mr Clarke wrote that "the terrorist threat is growing in scale and complexity" and rejected claims that an extension would be a threat to civil liberties.
Meanwhile Justice Secretary Jack Straw has accused the Tories of behaving in an "unprincipled" manner over the controversial proposals.
Mr Straw said: "I think they are in a very inconsistent position.
"I'd put any money you like that had they had been in government in the last period, they would have done at least this."
Shadow home secretary David Davis said: "I shall refrain, at this stage, from commenting on the government's reported tactics, both with their own party and other parties.Shadow home secretary David Davis said: "I shall refrain, at this stage, from commenting on the government's reported tactics, both with their own party and other parties.
"Its approach now clearly smacks of desperation.""Its approach now clearly smacks of desperation."