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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/live/2016/aug/26/was-traingate-a-load-of-fuss-over-nothing-join-our-live-look-at-the-week
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| Traingate, divorce laws and dodgy bakes – Guardian Social as it happened | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 4.25pm BST | |
| 16:25 | |
| What are your plans for the Bank Holiday? | |
| Owen Jones | |
| The last word today goes to Owen Jones, who looks forward to the weekend and asks what yours might have in store. Thank you for joining the discussion today! | |
| It’s been quite the turbulent year, to say the least. From deaths of beloved celebrities to the Labour party turning in on itself to Britain leaving the EU, it’s been, um, quite the rollercoaster. So this Bank Holiday is a good chance to try and forget about it all. I’m off to Reading and Leeds Festival where I’ll be mostly wandering around feeling old. What are your plans? | |
| 4.19pm BST | |
| 16:19 | |
| The Guardian Archive on this week in history | |
| Harry Burton | |
| We delved into our archive to look at the stories that have made headlines around this time of the year. Here is a selection, tell us what you think below the line. | |
| 4.05pm BST | |
| 16:05 | |
| Brexit is like Boris Johnson’s hair – very messy: tell us your best jokes | |
| With Edinburgh fringe festival nearing its end, we published an article including the great jokes from the Edinburgh fringe – what are your favourite jokes of all time? Share them in the comments. | |
| Brexit is like Boris Johnson’s hair – very messy, but acceptable anywhere outside of London.Shazia Mirza | |
| I lost my virginity. Well, I didn’t lose it, I gave it away. For charity. It’s the biggest non-tax-deductible donation I’ve made.Felicity Ward | |
| It all starts innocently, mixing chocolate and Rice Krispies. But before you know it, you’re adding raisins and marshmallows – it’s a rocky road.Olaf Falafel | |
| 3.53pm BST | 3.53pm BST |
| 15:53 | 15:53 |
| Here are some more of your perspectives on the story about marriage and divorce laws from the comments. | Here are some more of your perspectives on the story about marriage and divorce laws from the comments. |
| Marriage is a business relationship from the moment people sign. It is however often the last thing that the two people think about. Divorce is all about that business partnership whether it is cojointly owned property, a shared rental agreement, superannuation, bank accounts, ownership of goods and chattels, life insurance, shared debt liabilities in business arrangements, taxation implications and this does not begin to look at shared parental responsibilities. Looking at the business/financial relationship is something two people in love are unlikely to seriously look at prior to marriage unless they are serious people and good friends to boot. They will probably have a better go at being happier together as it is known that the early romance fades at about 12-18 months - long enough to get through the wedding, to have a first baby and then to settle in to a comfortable oxytocin-infused cohabitation. | Marriage is a business relationship from the moment people sign. It is however often the last thing that the two people think about. Divorce is all about that business partnership whether it is cojointly owned property, a shared rental agreement, superannuation, bank accounts, ownership of goods and chattels, life insurance, shared debt liabilities in business arrangements, taxation implications and this does not begin to look at shared parental responsibilities. Looking at the business/financial relationship is something two people in love are unlikely to seriously look at prior to marriage unless they are serious people and good friends to boot. They will probably have a better go at being happier together as it is known that the early romance fades at about 12-18 months - long enough to get through the wedding, to have a first baby and then to settle in to a comfortable oxytocin-infused cohabitation. |
| Better be good friends, good-humoured and sensible with money and managing and engaging with family and friends from then on. | Better be good friends, good-humoured and sensible with money and managing and engaging with family and friends from then on. |
| For many people divorce is not the end-of-the-world though it can seem so at the time. It is usually initiated by one of the couple who has considered it for some long time and announces it when he or she is very psychologically ready. The initiator may have already made alternative arrangements for their own living arrangement. The person being left is the one who faces greatest upheaval and sense of lost control over his/her life and it may be that they are having to genuinely confront lifestyle issues around alcohol, gambling or other addictions. On the other hand they may have nothing of that and it is the other party leaving so as to continue a career of drugs/alcohol or other marriage-incompatible behaviour. | For many people divorce is not the end-of-the-world though it can seem so at the time. It is usually initiated by one of the couple who has considered it for some long time and announces it when he or she is very psychologically ready. The initiator may have already made alternative arrangements for their own living arrangement. The person being left is the one who faces greatest upheaval and sense of lost control over his/her life and it may be that they are having to genuinely confront lifestyle issues around alcohol, gambling or other addictions. On the other hand they may have nothing of that and it is the other party leaving so as to continue a career of drugs/alcohol or other marriage-incompatible behaviour. |
| Whatever the complex reasons requiring the two to be held in suspended animation for two years before they can act to finalise a divorce would have serious financial and psychological implications. It is an unnecessarily long time to put people's lives on hold and I could not see how it would prevent the ultimate outcome. I wonder if there have been comparative studies on the level of trauma and subsequent readjustment. Surely there have been. | Whatever the complex reasons requiring the two to be held in suspended animation for two years before they can act to finalise a divorce would have serious financial and psychological implications. It is an unnecessarily long time to put people's lives on hold and I could not see how it would prevent the ultimate outcome. I wonder if there have been comparative studies on the level of trauma and subsequent readjustment. Surely there have been. |
| It's the marriage laws that need updating - the law should be kept out of marriage and relationships. Divorce has become such a normality that now is just a chance for solicitors to scavange off 2 people going through possibly the most upsetting time of their life. | It's the marriage laws that need updating - the law should be kept out of marriage and relationships. Divorce has become such a normality that now is just a chance for solicitors to scavange off 2 people going through possibly the most upsetting time of their life. |
| I remember talking to gay protestors in the late 80s who hated the idea of gay marriage - they thought it as assimilation to society and that it is society who should come round to their marriage-free relationships. I couldn't agree with that more. | I remember talking to gay protestors in the late 80s who hated the idea of gay marriage - they thought it as assimilation to society and that it is society who should come round to their marriage-free relationships. I couldn't agree with that more. |
| I got engaged to my girlfriend on her birthday last year and through planning for a wedding decided to call it off and wait. The amount of pressure applied on young couples to engage in something so antiquated and archaic probably doesn't help in the context of building a life together. We already have a one year old son so we're more tied for life through that than any ceremony we could go through. The whole thing was just an exercise in people trying to rip us off for specially made jam jars to go on 're-conditioned' tables in a room that cost a fortune because we wanted to get married. The whole wedding and marriage industry has become so vulgar and materialistic it's no wonder that divorce has become so common. The causes of divorce need to be investigated further but yes of course divorce laws need overhauling. Why anybody would want to pay 5k for a wedding these days baffles me. | I got engaged to my girlfriend on her birthday last year and through planning for a wedding decided to call it off and wait. The amount of pressure applied on young couples to engage in something so antiquated and archaic probably doesn't help in the context of building a life together. We already have a one year old son so we're more tied for life through that than any ceremony we could go through. The whole thing was just an exercise in people trying to rip us off for specially made jam jars to go on 're-conditioned' tables in a room that cost a fortune because we wanted to get married. The whole wedding and marriage industry has become so vulgar and materialistic it's no wonder that divorce has become so common. The causes of divorce need to be investigated further but yes of course divorce laws need overhauling. Why anybody would want to pay 5k for a wedding these days baffles me. |
| 3.42pm BST | 3.42pm BST |
| 15:42 | 15:42 |
| Advice to an aspiring journalist | Advice to an aspiring journalist |
| This week Charlie, 23, from Wiltshire asked for advice on getting into journalism via our form (where we invite you to ask our journalists questions). Here’s the response we got from Polly Curtis, the Guardian’s digital editor, and Will Coldwell, a journalist who works on the travel section. These two journalists, at different points in their career, offer their tips below. | This week Charlie, 23, from Wiltshire asked for advice on getting into journalism via our form (where we invite you to ask our journalists questions). Here’s the response we got from Polly Curtis, the Guardian’s digital editor, and Will Coldwell, a journalist who works on the travel section. These two journalists, at different points in their career, offer their tips below. |
| Polly Curtis | Polly Curtis |
| 1. Work. Sounds simple but take every opportunity, in every context to be busy and learn. Don’t sit still and wait. Be hungry and go for it. You can get work alongside your degree and it will complement it. 2. Listen. The best journalists are thinking about what is being said to them, rather than what their next question is. 3. Put the blinkers up. It’s an incredibly competitive business, but don’t be distracted by that. In my experience of getting into journalism it is actually very meritocratic. Editors are hungry for talent and it tends to shine through in a newsroom. | 1. Work. Sounds simple but take every opportunity, in every context to be busy and learn. Don’t sit still and wait. Be hungry and go for it. You can get work alongside your degree and it will complement it. 2. Listen. The best journalists are thinking about what is being said to them, rather than what their next question is. 3. Put the blinkers up. It’s an incredibly competitive business, but don’t be distracted by that. In my experience of getting into journalism it is actually very meritocratic. Editors are hungry for talent and it tends to shine through in a newsroom. |
| Will Coldwell | Will Coldwell |
| My advice for getting into journalism at this stage is to, well, just do it. Sure, you could write for your student paper, but think beyond the institution – write for blogs, websites, mags and be led by the areas that interest you and the things that you have experience of that others may not. | My advice for getting into journalism at this stage is to, well, just do it. Sure, you could write for your student paper, but think beyond the institution – write for blogs, websites, mags and be led by the areas that interest you and the things that you have experience of that others may not. |
| Even better, while you’re working on getting those first commissions, just make your own publication. I started out making (probably quite crappy) DIY zines with my friends, which gave me an excuse to write about things I liked and interview people I thought were cool, but it was far more motivating than waiting for someone to tell me what I wanted to write was worth something. | Even better, while you’re working on getting those first commissions, just make your own publication. I started out making (probably quite crappy) DIY zines with my friends, which gave me an excuse to write about things I liked and interview people I thought were cool, but it was far more motivating than waiting for someone to tell me what I wanted to write was worth something. |
| 3.23pm BST | 3.23pm BST |
| 15:23 | 15:23 |
| Moderators choose a conversation of the week | Moderators choose a conversation of the week |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| Our team of moderators highlighted this great discussion under an article on Caster Semenya, the women’s 800m gold medallist who has been the subject of controversy because of speculation surrounding her levels of testosterone. | Our team of moderators highlighted this great discussion under an article on Caster Semenya, the women’s 800m gold medallist who has been the subject of controversy because of speculation surrounding her levels of testosterone. |
| Silent_sunrise | Silent_sunrise |
| The cruelty and inhumanity, whether deliberate or not, towards Caster Semenya is upsetting to me so how horrible it must have felt for her at the time doesn’t bear thinking. Seemed so immature of the losers. | The cruelty and inhumanity, whether deliberate or not, towards Caster Semenya is upsetting to me so how horrible it must have felt for her at the time doesn’t bear thinking. Seemed so immature of the losers. |
| KingWizard | KingWizard |
| Some people seem to have more disdain for Caster Semenya than athletes that have actually taken drugs. | Some people seem to have more disdain for Caster Semenya than athletes that have actually taken drugs. |
| Timmyb | Timmyb |
| It’s a difficult predicament. Firstly, let’s not pretend the Olympics is just a celebration of sport, it is at its base the most prestigious elite competition. Athletes spend four years of their life building up to it and probably another 10 or 20 learning their trade before they get anywhere near that level. They have a right to feel aggravated if they think someone has such an advantage that means thy will never be able to compete for the top prizes. | It’s a difficult predicament. Firstly, let’s not pretend the Olympics is just a celebration of sport, it is at its base the most prestigious elite competition. Athletes spend four years of their life building up to it and probably another 10 or 20 learning their trade before they get anywhere near that level. They have a right to feel aggravated if they think someone has such an advantage that means thy will never be able to compete for the top prizes. |
| 3.11pm BST | 3.11pm BST |
| 15:11 | 15:11 |
| You’re still sharing baking successes and failures via GuardianWitness – including some wedding related which really did seem to go well. | You’re still sharing baking successes and failures via GuardianWitness – including some wedding related which really did seem to go well. |
| Wedding cake | Wedding cake |
| Made by me (dad), for our son's wedding. | Made by me (dad), for our son's wedding. |
| Sent via Guardian Witness | Sent via Guardian Witness |
| By terry101 | By terry101 |
| 24 August 2016, 21:39 | 24 August 2016, 21:39 |
| First Attempt at Wedding Cakes | First Attempt at Wedding Cakes |
| My girlfriend and I (who are not professional bakers but had made a well received cake for my dad's birthday a few months before) were asked to make cakes for my brothers wedding. Five in total. I think they went well. So did the children! | My girlfriend and I (who are not professional bakers but had made a well received cake for my dad's birthday a few months before) were asked to make cakes for my brothers wedding. Five in total. I think they went well. So did the children! |
| Sent via Guardian Witness | Sent via Guardian Witness |
| By 5M3llyp4nt5 | By 5M3llyp4nt5 |
| 24 August 2016, 20:05 | 24 August 2016, 20:05 |
| And here are are a couple more for anyone who might be celebrating a birthday around now ... | And here are are a couple more for anyone who might be celebrating a birthday around now ... |
| Don't judge a cake by its candles | Don't judge a cake by its candles |
| It looks ridiculous but it wasn't actually all that bad. (Although, I think the sugar blast from the secret lemon curd centre helped - no one could string a sentence together for all the heart palpitations) | It looks ridiculous but it wasn't actually all that bad. (Although, I think the sugar blast from the secret lemon curd centre helped - no one could string a sentence together for all the heart palpitations) |
| Sent via Guardian Witness | Sent via Guardian Witness |
| By KatieLB | By KatieLB |
| 25 August 2016, 12:16 | 25 August 2016, 12:16 |
| Princess castle cake | Princess castle cake |
| Not for a child, but a 33 year old colleague! | Not for a child, but a 33 year old colleague! |
| Sent via Guardian Witness | Sent via Guardian Witness |
| By ID3700201 | By ID3700201 |
| 24 August 2016, 23:14 | 24 August 2016, 23:14 |
| My son's birthday cake | My son's birthday cake |
| Rather over estimated my ability to create a caterpillar cake. | Rather over estimated my ability to create a caterpillar cake. |
| Sent via Guardian Witness | Sent via Guardian Witness |
| By Juliet Porter | By Juliet Porter |
| 25 August 2016, 11:56 | 25 August 2016, 11:56 |
| Add yours via the blue GuardianWitness buttons or by clicking here. | Add yours via the blue GuardianWitness buttons or by clicking here. |
| 3.01pm BST | 3.01pm BST |
| 15:01 | 15:01 |
| Wedding day woes: 'the groom made his way to A&E' | Wedding day woes: 'the groom made his way to A&E' |
| Matthew Holmes | Matthew Holmes |
| Sticking with the marriage theme. Last week we asked you for your wedding day disasters and boy, your stories did not disappoint. | Sticking with the marriage theme. Last week we asked you for your wedding day disasters and boy, your stories did not disappoint. |
| In the comments, more tales of woe ... all of them completely truthful we’re sure: | In the comments, more tales of woe ... all of them completely truthful we’re sure: |
| Attended a wedding when during the evening meal the groom had to be excused as a piece of beef had become lodged in his throat. Groom made his way to local A&E accompanied by his father. Groom returned a few hours later just in time for the first dance. Unfortunately the beef remained lodged in his throat so around 10.30pm the groom and his wife headed back to A&E dressed in their finery not returning until 5.00am the next morning. Going to get them Beefeater vouchers for their 1st anniversary. | Attended a wedding when during the evening meal the groom had to be excused as a piece of beef had become lodged in his throat. Groom made his way to local A&E accompanied by his father. Groom returned a few hours later just in time for the first dance. Unfortunately the beef remained lodged in his throat so around 10.30pm the groom and his wife headed back to A&E dressed in their finery not returning until 5.00am the next morning. Going to get them Beefeater vouchers for their 1st anniversary. |
| My mother made the bridesmaid dresses for my sister's wedding 30 years ago. Lilac satin, cut on the bias and extremely unforgiving. They'd fitted alright before but each of the bridesmaids had filled out a bit. I was the worst and the big fry that morning that my mother insisted would sustain us didn't help. I took my knickers off ( discreetly ) on the lawn of the hotel to avoid VPL and went commando. Small acts of rebellion sustain me still. | My mother made the bridesmaid dresses for my sister's wedding 30 years ago. Lilac satin, cut on the bias and extremely unforgiving. They'd fitted alright before but each of the bridesmaids had filled out a bit. I was the worst and the big fry that morning that my mother insisted would sustain us didn't help. I took my knickers off ( discreetly ) on the lawn of the hotel to avoid VPL and went commando. Small acts of rebellion sustain me still. |
| We did see quite a few success stories, however ... not all of them popular! | We did see quite a few success stories, however ... not all of them popular! |
| As someone else below has pointed out, there are SO many smug comments on this thread.Marry or don't, have a big party or a small one, have your family there or elope just the two of you - it really doesn't matter as long as it is what works for your relationship. | As someone else below has pointed out, there are SO many smug comments on this thread.Marry or don't, have a big party or a small one, have your family there or elope just the two of you - it really doesn't matter as long as it is what works for your relationship. |
| I am getting married next year to the absolute love of my life. I am desperately excited and can't wait for the day to come - not because it will be "the best day of my life" (because as we can all see from these stories, there is so much to go wrong!) or because I get to wear a nice dress. I can't wait because it will be the first day I get to be married to the best human I've ever met. | I am getting married next year to the absolute love of my life. I am desperately excited and can't wait for the day to come - not because it will be "the best day of my life" (because as we can all see from these stories, there is so much to go wrong!) or because I get to wear a nice dress. I can't wait because it will be the first day I get to be married to the best human I've ever met. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.05pm BST | at 3.05pm BST |
| 2.36pm BST | 2.36pm BST |
| 14:36 | 14:36 |
| Is it time to overhaul the UK's divorce system? | Is it time to overhaul the UK's divorce system? |
| Emine Saner | Emine Saner |
| I was cheered to catch up with Jim Halfens, who invented the “divorce hotel” in the Netherlands (for an article published this week), where soon-to-be former couples get a split finalised in a weekend. He’s getting married in a couple of weeks. | I was cheered to catch up with Jim Halfens, who invented the “divorce hotel” in the Netherlands (for an article published this week), where soon-to-be former couples get a split finalised in a weekend. He’s getting married in a couple of weeks. |
| He wants to bring his divorce hotel concept to the UK, and thinks we’re in need of overhauling our divorce laws. He’s not the only one. Resolution, the organisation of family lawyers who favour a non-confrontational, mediating approach, has long been calling for the introduction of a no-fault divorce. At present, unless you have been living apart from your spouse for at least two years, the only way to get divorced quickly is by citing adultery or unreasonable behaviour. Often neither have occurred. Other countries have a no-fault system, but MPs seem to have no desire to introduce it here. A no-fault divorce, say those who oppose it, would undermine marriage. Do you agree? | He wants to bring his divorce hotel concept to the UK, and thinks we’re in need of overhauling our divorce laws. He’s not the only one. Resolution, the organisation of family lawyers who favour a non-confrontational, mediating approach, has long been calling for the introduction of a no-fault divorce. At present, unless you have been living apart from your spouse for at least two years, the only way to get divorced quickly is by citing adultery or unreasonable behaviour. Often neither have occurred. Other countries have a no-fault system, but MPs seem to have no desire to introduce it here. A no-fault divorce, say those who oppose it, would undermine marriage. Do you agree? |
| 2.25pm BST | 2.25pm BST |
| 14:25 | 14:25 |
| Video of the week – men don't cry | Video of the week – men don't cry |
| Irene Baqué | Irene Baqué |
| London filmmaker Mollie Mills explores what it is to be a young man in 2016. In a series of beautifully shot sequences, Mills allows today’s young men to talk about what is really going on below the surface. | London filmmaker Mollie Mills explores what it is to be a young man in 2016. In a series of beautifully shot sequences, Mills allows today’s young men to talk about what is really going on below the surface. |
| Her poetic images reflect what one young man says it the only three options open to today’s men: you can either be happy, angry, or strong. It’s because of this rigid idea of masculinity that suicide is the biggest killer of young men under age 45 in this country. | Her poetic images reflect what one young man says it the only three options open to today’s men: you can either be happy, angry, or strong. It’s because of this rigid idea of masculinity that suicide is the biggest killer of young men under age 45 in this country. |
| What do you think about this? Am keen to hear thoughts below the line. | What do you think about this? Am keen to hear thoughts below the line. |