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| Len McCluskey: ‘Who’s going to be the king? Which one’s Corbyn, and which one’s us?’ | Len McCluskey: ‘Who’s going to be the king? Which one’s Corbyn, and which one’s us?’ |
| (about 1 month later) | |
| The night before I meet Len McCluskey, I hear a theory to explain the mystery that has been puzzling many people. No amount of enthusiasm for Jeremy Corbyn, they argue, can alter the fact that in a parliamentary democracy, if his MPs won’t campaign for him to become PM, he cannot win. So why would thousands of youngsters politically motivated enough to come out on the streets for Momentum and pay to join Labour support a leader who can’t command the support of his own MPs? Perhaps, the theory goes, what might look perverse is in fact rational self-interest. Perhaps they appear to care little about getting into power because they have already won it. | The night before I meet Len McCluskey, I hear a theory to explain the mystery that has been puzzling many people. No amount of enthusiasm for Jeremy Corbyn, they argue, can alter the fact that in a parliamentary democracy, if his MPs won’t campaign for him to become PM, he cannot win. So why would thousands of youngsters politically motivated enough to come out on the streets for Momentum and pay to join Labour support a leader who can’t command the support of his own MPs? Perhaps, the theory goes, what might look perverse is in fact rational self-interest. Perhaps they appear to care little about getting into power because they have already won it. |
| Corbyn’s supporters currently control a vast political party. Its leader owes everything to them; the sense of power must be intoxicating. Were Corbyn to lose his job – or for that matter, become prime minister – their power would vanish overnight. But for as long as he remains leader of the opposition, they will never be more powerful. | Corbyn’s supporters currently control a vast political party. Its leader owes everything to them; the sense of power must be intoxicating. Were Corbyn to lose his job – or for that matter, become prime minister – their power would vanish overnight. But for as long as he remains leader of the opposition, they will never be more powerful. |
| I was thinking this theory over on my way to see McCluskey when another thought struck me. If it is true of Corbyn’s Momentum army, could it also be true of Unite’s general secretary? | I was thinking this theory over on my way to see McCluskey when another thought struck me. If it is true of Corbyn’s Momentum army, could it also be true of Unite’s general secretary? |
| He greets me with instantly likable warmth. The leadership crisis has made him put on weight, he laughs (“Stress eating? Yeah”), but whereas everyone else on both sides is looking more raddled by the day, the 65-year-old boss of Britain’s biggest union is a picture of relaxed health. There is no sense here of a man at the mercy of events. I had thought Labour’s civil war might be making him miserable, but the suggestion amazes him. “No! No. Far from it. I always feel optimistic.” | He greets me with instantly likable warmth. The leadership crisis has made him put on weight, he laughs (“Stress eating? Yeah”), but whereas everyone else on both sides is looking more raddled by the day, the 65-year-old boss of Britain’s biggest union is a picture of relaxed health. There is no sense here of a man at the mercy of events. I had thought Labour’s civil war might be making him miserable, but the suggestion amazes him. “No! No. Far from it. I always feel optimistic.” |
| For much of the interview, McCluskey casts himself as a statesmanlike peace envoy, mediating between factions with the impartiality of an honest broker. He makes it clear that during 45 years in Labour, and 46 as a trade unionist, he has “never been close friends” with Corbyn, and the sole leadership quality he can identify in the Islington North MP is a gift for “touching the public’s pulse”. When pressed to name another, he says: “Something quite extraordinary happened last summer, and we were all on a learning curve, including Jeremy Corbyn, who had to learn to be a leader. I think Jeremy is still on that learning curve.” But what, beyond his appeal to the left, are his leadership strengths? McCluskey offers a gnomic grin. “Well, therein lies the $64,000 question.” | For much of the interview, McCluskey casts himself as a statesmanlike peace envoy, mediating between factions with the impartiality of an honest broker. He makes it clear that during 45 years in Labour, and 46 as a trade unionist, he has “never been close friends” with Corbyn, and the sole leadership quality he can identify in the Islington North MP is a gift for “touching the public’s pulse”. When pressed to name another, he says: “Something quite extraordinary happened last summer, and we were all on a learning curve, including Jeremy Corbyn, who had to learn to be a leader. I think Jeremy is still on that learning curve.” But what, beyond his appeal to the left, are his leadership strengths? McCluskey offers a gnomic grin. “Well, therein lies the $64,000 question.” |
| Last November, he publicly urged Corbyn to stop saying “the first thing that came out of his head” to reporters, so I ask for evidence that this advice has been taken. McCluskey starts to chuckle. “I can give you instances where he hasn’t taken that advice! I remember when he was being interviewed by Andrew Marr in January, and got manoeuvered into talking about the Falklands and secondary strike action. I’m thinking, no Jeremy, don’t do that! Be more nuanced! Say, ‘What are we talking about the Falklands for?’ But now, here’s the conundrum. That honest approach is absolutely loved out there by Labour party members. The big question is, does it resonate with ordinary voters? I think the jury is still out.” | Last November, he publicly urged Corbyn to stop saying “the first thing that came out of his head” to reporters, so I ask for evidence that this advice has been taken. McCluskey starts to chuckle. “I can give you instances where he hasn’t taken that advice! I remember when he was being interviewed by Andrew Marr in January, and got manoeuvered into talking about the Falklands and secondary strike action. I’m thinking, no Jeremy, don’t do that! Be more nuanced! Say, ‘What are we talking about the Falklands for?’ But now, here’s the conundrum. That honest approach is absolutely loved out there by Labour party members. The big question is, does it resonate with ordinary voters? I think the jury is still out.” |
| The careful impression of benevolent neutrality begins to fray when McCluskey talks about “the plotters” and “Blairite grandees” within Labour. “I don’t regard Angela Eagle as one, but she has been used, very badly, by the plotters. And I told her at the time. It was a mistake, a big mistake for her.” He does not sound sympathetic. He is much nicer about Owen Smith, who has asked for a meeting, “Which I’m happy to do. I’ve no doubt that Owen will appeal to lots of our members, just as Jeremy does.” But when I ask what he thinks motivates Smith, after a loaded pause he replies, “Er. OK, well, first of all, Owen’s a very ambitious man,” adding with a dry chuckle, “He’s very evidently taken the opportunity that’s been presented.” That said, he would “absolutely not” call Owen “Blairite-lite”, and says crossly, “I think it’s a stupid phrase to use. And I’m hoping there will be a robust but relatively civilised election.” | The careful impression of benevolent neutrality begins to fray when McCluskey talks about “the plotters” and “Blairite grandees” within Labour. “I don’t regard Angela Eagle as one, but she has been used, very badly, by the plotters. And I told her at the time. It was a mistake, a big mistake for her.” He does not sound sympathetic. He is much nicer about Owen Smith, who has asked for a meeting, “Which I’m happy to do. I’ve no doubt that Owen will appeal to lots of our members, just as Jeremy does.” But when I ask what he thinks motivates Smith, after a loaded pause he replies, “Er. OK, well, first of all, Owen’s a very ambitious man,” adding with a dry chuckle, “He’s very evidently taken the opportunity that’s been presented.” That said, he would “absolutely not” call Owen “Blairite-lite”, and says crossly, “I think it’s a stupid phrase to use. And I’m hoping there will be a robust but relatively civilised election.” |
| This strikes me as optimistic, but McCluskey thinks all the talk of abuse and intimidation has been wildly exaggerated. “Well, there’s a hysteria being whipped up. A few people say things they shouldn’t at meetings and then it’s blown up out of all proportion, to suit the imagery that the Labour party has somehow become a cesspit.” He is gloomier about the online abuse. “God knows how you can control social media. I know the more vicious elements hide their identities... But how can you control them? Who are they?” | This strikes me as optimistic, but McCluskey thinks all the talk of abuse and intimidation has been wildly exaggerated. “Well, there’s a hysteria being whipped up. A few people say things they shouldn’t at meetings and then it’s blown up out of all proportion, to suit the imagery that the Labour party has somehow become a cesspit.” He is gloomier about the online abuse. “God knows how you can control social media. I know the more vicious elements hide their identities... But how can you control them? Who are they?” |
| His answer is unexpected. McCluskey thinks the ugly online abuse of Corbyn’s critics is posted by security forces trying to discredit his supporters. Registering my surprise, he exclaims, “Of course! Of course! Do people believe for one second that the security forces are not involved in dark practices? Decca, I have been around long enough … the type of stuff that we ultimately find out about, under the 30-year rule.” He thinks that in 30 years we’ll discover that MI5 was behind the social media threats? | His answer is unexpected. McCluskey thinks the ugly online abuse of Corbyn’s critics is posted by security forces trying to discredit his supporters. Registering my surprise, he exclaims, “Of course! Of course! Do people believe for one second that the security forces are not involved in dark practices? Decca, I have been around long enough … the type of stuff that we ultimately find out about, under the 30-year rule.” He thinks that in 30 years we’ll discover that MI5 was behind the social media threats? |
| “Well, I tell you what, anybody who thinks that that isn’t happening doesn’t live in the same world that I live in. Do you think that there’s not all kinds of rightwingers who are not secretly able to disguise themselves and stir up trouble? I find it amazing if people think that isn’t happening.” | “Well, I tell you what, anybody who thinks that that isn’t happening doesn’t live in the same world that I live in. Do you think that there’s not all kinds of rightwingers who are not secretly able to disguise themselves and stir up trouble? I find it amazing if people think that isn’t happening.” |
| Another surprise comes when I read out statements that two former shadow ministers have released to explain why they resigned. Both describe in anguished detail the impossibility of serving a leader who refuses to communicate or collaborate on any coherent strategy. McCluskey’s face crinkles into contempt. “Wow, so someone in Jeremy’s office made the odd mistake,” he sneers. “I think this is all disingenuous. Jeremy gave them their dream jobs. Where’s the loyalty?” | Another surprise comes when I read out statements that two former shadow ministers have released to explain why they resigned. Both describe in anguished detail the impossibility of serving a leader who refuses to communicate or collaborate on any coherent strategy. McCluskey’s face crinkles into contempt. “Wow, so someone in Jeremy’s office made the odd mistake,” he sneers. “I think this is all disingenuous. Jeremy gave them their dream jobs. Where’s the loyalty?” |
| Both MPs would presumably be punished if Corbyn’s signal this week that there could be compulsory reselection after the 2018 boundary review comes to pass. Corbyn made his comments only an hour before we meet, and they appear to come as news to McCluskey. He has never been a fan of deselection, he explains, because squabbles put voters off and divert energy away from fighting elections. A motion calling for Labour to adopt it was submitted to Unite’s policy conference only last week, “and I’ll let you into a secret. My executive had decided to oppose it. And had the executive opposed it, I think the conference would have opposed it. But the mood changed dramatically, and the executive supported it.” What changed its mind? | Both MPs would presumably be punished if Corbyn’s signal this week that there could be compulsory reselection after the 2018 boundary review comes to pass. Corbyn made his comments only an hour before we meet, and they appear to come as news to McCluskey. He has never been a fan of deselection, he explains, because squabbles put voters off and divert energy away from fighting elections. A motion calling for Labour to adopt it was submitted to Unite’s policy conference only last week, “and I’ll let you into a secret. My executive had decided to oppose it. And had the executive opposed it, I think the conference would have opposed it. But the mood changed dramatically, and the executive supported it.” What changed its mind? |
| “What happened is, unfortunately, this crazy vote of no confidence, this mass resignation, this coup attempt – and you know, it’s Newton’s third law of motion, isn’t it? For every action, there is a reaction. And it changed me. So, although I asked the executive not to take that position, I didn’t go into the ditch to die for it. I voted with the executive.” | “What happened is, unfortunately, this crazy vote of no confidence, this mass resignation, this coup attempt – and you know, it’s Newton’s third law of motion, isn’t it? For every action, there is a reaction. And it changed me. So, although I asked the executive not to take that position, I didn’t go into the ditch to die for it. I voted with the executive.” |
| And lo, within a fortnight Corbyn was saying something similar. It would be difficult to dispute that his leadership rests firmly in McCluskey’s hands, and would be finished were Unite to withdraw its support. If elected prime minister, however, Corbyn would owe his job to the electorate instead, so I venture the thesis that McCluskey, perhaps like Momentum, might prefer him to stay out of office. “No, I don’t recognise that. It doesn’t work that way. Of course I want him to be prime minister! Of course I do!” | And lo, within a fortnight Corbyn was saying something similar. It would be difficult to dispute that his leadership rests firmly in McCluskey’s hands, and would be finished were Unite to withdraw its support. If elected prime minister, however, Corbyn would owe his job to the electorate instead, so I venture the thesis that McCluskey, perhaps like Momentum, might prefer him to stay out of office. “No, I don’t recognise that. It doesn’t work that way. Of course I want him to be prime minister! Of course I do!” |
| In that case, assuming Corbyn keeps his job, how long does McCluskey expect it will take for Labour to win power? I am told that when McCluskey attempted to broker a deal between the leadership and the rebels, he proposed a peace plan whereby Corbyn kept his job, but would resign in 2018 if Labour still looked on course for defeat. | In that case, assuming Corbyn keeps his job, how long does McCluskey expect it will take for Labour to win power? I am told that when McCluskey attempted to broker a deal between the leadership and the rebels, he proposed a peace plan whereby Corbyn kept his job, but would resign in 2018 if Labour still looked on course for defeat. |
| “Without me saying yes, the peace plan said 2018, let me just simply say that everybody engaged on this learning curve wants a constant review of how are we doing, where are we going. I don’t think Jeremy has any problem with the test of electability. He wants the ability to implement the mandate to put forward an alternative. They’ve got to be given the chance. And of course there will be people checking, are we still 11 points behind? What is the situation in the marginals? All of those things will constantly be looked at. But the idea of trying to get rid of him now is absolutely wrong. To put forward an alternative to an economic dogma that has dominated world politics for 40 years, since the Reagan-Thatcher axis – to challenge that is massive.” | “Without me saying yes, the peace plan said 2018, let me just simply say that everybody engaged on this learning curve wants a constant review of how are we doing, where are we going. I don’t think Jeremy has any problem with the test of electability. He wants the ability to implement the mandate to put forward an alternative. They’ve got to be given the chance. And of course there will be people checking, are we still 11 points behind? What is the situation in the marginals? All of those things will constantly be looked at. But the idea of trying to get rid of him now is absolutely wrong. To put forward an alternative to an economic dogma that has dominated world politics for 40 years, since the Reagan-Thatcher axis – to challenge that is massive.” |
| For the first time, McCluskey becomes very faintly awkward. Earlier he had said victory in 2020 under any leader “would be really difficult. I know his initials are JC, but even the original JC might find that difficult.” Now I ask if he means that defeat has already been privately conceded, giving Corbyn more time to develop an electable offer. “No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying he has to be given an opportunity to try. Nine months is despicable.” | For the first time, McCluskey becomes very faintly awkward. Earlier he had said victory in 2020 under any leader “would be really difficult. I know his initials are JC, but even the original JC might find that difficult.” Now I ask if he means that defeat has already been privately conceded, giving Corbyn more time to develop an electable offer. “No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying he has to be given an opportunity to try. Nine months is despicable.” |
| If not now, nor 2020, then what is the time limit? “I don’t believe you can put dates on it. When people mention 2018, that’s just because we’re two years away from an election, and if there was a view that we needed a new leader, someone would say: well, you can’t do that six weeks before a general election. That’s why 2018 is spoken about by people.” | If not now, nor 2020, then what is the time limit? “I don’t believe you can put dates on it. When people mention 2018, that’s just because we’re two years away from an election, and if there was a view that we needed a new leader, someone would say: well, you can’t do that six weeks before a general election. That’s why 2018 is spoken about by people.” |
| McCluskey himself is up for re-election in 2018, and some have suggested that his noisy support for Corbyn will expire once it has served the purpose of delivering him a second term. A glance is exchanged with his press officer as soon as I mention this theory – that it’s his job, not Corbyn’s, he’s defending. “Yeah, I’ve read that and heard that,” McCluskey says evenly, before dismissing it as laughable. “I have to tell you, there’s not an ounce of truth in that.” | McCluskey himself is up for re-election in 2018, and some have suggested that his noisy support for Corbyn will expire once it has served the purpose of delivering him a second term. A glance is exchanged with his press officer as soon as I mention this theory – that it’s his job, not Corbyn’s, he’s defending. “Yeah, I’ve read that and heard that,” McCluskey says evenly, before dismissing it as laughable. “I have to tell you, there’s not an ounce of truth in that.” |
| My guess, for what it’s worth, is that McCluskey wants a Labour prime minister, doubts Corbyn will ever be electable, but won’t be ready to abandon his lifelong dream of seeing a leftwinger in Downing Street for another two years; 2018 would seem like the logical deadline – but I suspect he daren’t say so. With such a magnificently deft operator, it’s hard to work out what’s really going on behind the smile. But his press officer tells me he is a strategic genius, and when he poses for these pictures, he is anything but oblivious to their not-even-subtle subtext. | My guess, for what it’s worth, is that McCluskey wants a Labour prime minister, doubts Corbyn will ever be electable, but won’t be ready to abandon his lifelong dream of seeing a leftwinger in Downing Street for another two years; 2018 would seem like the logical deadline – but I suspect he daren’t say so. With such a magnificently deft operator, it’s hard to work out what’s really going on behind the smile. But his press officer tells me he is a strategic genius, and when he poses for these pictures, he is anything but oblivious to their not-even-subtle subtext. |
| He poses behind one of several chess sets in his office, and toys with the pieces. “Now this is getting interesting,” he murmurs playfully. “Hmm, who is going to be the king? Which one’s Jeremy Corbyn, and which one’s us? Angela Eagle,” he smirks, “she was just a pawn.” His press officer rolls her eyes in despair, and groans. “Oh God, this is every trope in the powerplay book. We might as well put a white cat in his lap.” The photographer asks McCluskey to hold the king up to the camera, and the press officer laughs with a wince. “That’s it, I’m not reading the paper on Saturday.” | He poses behind one of several chess sets in his office, and toys with the pieces. “Now this is getting interesting,” he murmurs playfully. “Hmm, who is going to be the king? Which one’s Jeremy Corbyn, and which one’s us? Angela Eagle,” he smirks, “she was just a pawn.” His press officer rolls her eyes in despair, and groans. “Oh God, this is every trope in the powerplay book. We might as well put a white cat in his lap.” The photographer asks McCluskey to hold the king up to the camera, and the press officer laughs with a wince. “That’s it, I’m not reading the paper on Saturday.” |
| McCluskey picks up the king. “Hmm, now then. The kingmaker … ” | McCluskey picks up the king. “Hmm, now then. The kingmaker … ” |
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