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| 'I hope that my appearance here has contributed a bit to healing,' says Pell at the conclusion of questioning – live | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 3.02am GMT | |
| 03:02 | |
| The former premier of NSW, Kristina Keneally, who also has a Masters in theology, has been closely following Pell’s evidence to the royal commission. She has written some analysis for Guardian Australia, which you can read in full here. Keneally writes Cardinal Pell has thrown his men to the wolves – it’s everyone’s fault but his: | |
| Cardinal George Pell’s evidence this week to the royal commission on institutional responses to child sexual abuse is – to many – shocking. Audible gasps can sometimes be heard from the public gallery in Sydney. | |
| The criticism of Pell emanates along a spectrum from Ray Hadley to David Marr. Even Andrew Bolt was moved to condemnation – though that position didn’t last. Bolt came to his senses, so to speak, and remembered that he was, after all, Andrew Bolt. | |
| Most of the criticism of Pell is sparked by this one stark statement, given in response to questions about what the younger Pell knew about convicted serial paedophile Gerald Ridsdale: “It was a sad story and it wasn’t of much interest to me ... I had no reason to turn my mind to the evils Ridsdale had perpetrated.” | |
| Let’s set aside that perhaps any priest – indeed, any human with a functioning conscience – might have shown some interest once stories and rumours started to swirl in Ballarat. Pell shared a house with Ridsdale, Pell sat on a committee of priests who made decisions to move Ridsdale from parish to parish, Pell was vicar for education when Ridsdale was a school chaplain at St Alipius, and Pell accompanied Ridsdale to court when he was finally charged. | |
| Pell had more reasons than most to turn his mind to what Ridsdale was perpetrating. | |
| 2.54am GMT | |
| 02:54 | |
| A recap of one of the most telling exchanges between Justice Peter McClellan and Cardinal George Pell | |
| With Pell’s evidence now over, this exchange is worth going over in full: | |
| McClellan asked Pell about how he responded to a young schoolboy who came to him to say Brother Edward Dowlan was abusing children. In 2015, Dowlan was convicted of 16 counts of indecent assault against 11 boys at four different Christian Brothers’ schools and was sentenced to six years and six months in prison, with a four-year non-parole period. | |
| McClellan: “What did that boy say to you?” | |
| Pell: “Um, he said something like ‘Dowlan is misbehaving with boys’.” | |
| McClellan: “That was a very serious matter to be raised with you, wasn’t it?” | |
| Pell: “Um, yes, that is the case.” | |
| McClellan: “What did you do about it?” | |
| Pell: “Um, I didn’t do anything about it.” | |
| McClellan: “Would you have done something about it?” | |
| Pell: “Well, I eventually did. I eventually inquired with the school chaplain.” | |
| McClellan: “You didn’t go straight to the school and say ‘I’ve got this allegation, what’s going on’?” | |
| Pell: “No, I didn’t.” | |
| McClellan: “Should you have?” | |
| Pell: “Um, with the experience of 40 years later, certainly I would agree that I should have done more.” | |
| McClellan: “Why do you need the experience of 40 years later? Wasn’t it a serious matter then?” | |
| Pell: “Yes, but people had a different attitude then. There was no specifics about the activity, how serious it was and the boy wasn’t asking me to do anything about it but just lamenting and mentioning.” | |
| McClellan: “You and I have had this discussion on more than one occasion: Why was it necessary for people to ask you to do something rather than for you to accept the information and initiate your own response?” | |
| Pell: “Um, obviously that is not the case and my responsibilities as an auxiliary bishop and director of an educational institute and archbishop, obviously I was more aware of those obligations in those situations than I was as a young cleric. But I ... don’t excuse my comparative lack of activity.” | |
| Updated | |
| at 2.59am GMT | |
| 2.50am GMT | |
| 02:50 | |
| Cardinal George Pell has addressed the media - says "it's been a hard slog" | |
| I don’t know whether I say good evening or good morning but it’s probably good morning. It’s been a hard slog, at least for me. I’m a bit tired. | |
| But the Royal Commission process is designed to try to make the situation better for the future, for the survivors and to prevent the repetition of all this suffering in the future. | |
| I hope that my appearance here has contributed a bit to healing, to improving the situation. All the leadership of the church in Australia is committed to avoiding any repetition of the terrible history of the past and to try to make things better. I was born in Ballarat. I’m very, very proud of my Ballarat connections. I grieve for the suffering of the people whom I regard as my own people. I will be meeting with the Ballarat survivors tomorrow. Please God [I hope] that will take us a little bit forward. | |
| A reporter asks: “It was put to you that perhaps this might have appeared to be a witch-hunt and you said ‘It had crossed your mind’. Why did you think that?” | |
| With that Pell promptly ended the press conference, replying: | |
| I think I will leave you to work that out. Thank you very much one and all. | |
| Cardinal Pell speaking now pic.twitter.com/jrddEUrnnJ | |
| Updated | |
| at 2.56am GMT | |
| 2.26am GMT | 2.26am GMT |
| 02:26 | 02:26 |
| The deputy mayor of Ballarat, Belinda Coates, is with the survivors in Rome. She had this to say: | The deputy mayor of Ballarat, Belinda Coates, is with the survivors in Rome. She had this to say: |
| I would like to congratulate our incredibly brave survivors, and I really deeply, deeply hope that it encourages and empowers other survivors across Australia to speak out and gives them courage. | I would like to congratulate our incredibly brave survivors, and I really deeply, deeply hope that it encourages and empowers other survivors across Australia to speak out and gives them courage. |
| I would like to thank the support team for supporting the survivors here. I would like to thank the people of Ballarat, the messages of hope and positivity and support for the survivors here and other survivors have just been pouring in, it has been absolutely overwhelming. Also I thank the people across Australia who have sent in messages of support and all power to these survivors here for putting the spotlight on this issue of child sexual abuse, child sexual rape. | I would like to thank the support team for supporting the survivors here. I would like to thank the people of Ballarat, the messages of hope and positivity and support for the survivors here and other survivors have just been pouring in, it has been absolutely overwhelming. Also I thank the people across Australia who have sent in messages of support and all power to these survivors here for putting the spotlight on this issue of child sexual abuse, child sexual rape. |
| It is a serious issue and these people here have just really brought the spotlight of the world onto this, and so I thank them for that. | It is a serious issue and these people here have just really brought the spotlight of the world onto this, and so I thank them for that. |
| Ingrid Irwin, representing survivors Stephen Woods and Andrew Collins, said: | Ingrid Irwin, representing survivors Stephen Woods and Andrew Collins, said: |
| For those who come forward that may not have their religion or their church or their family’s support once they come forward, you can make a new family, and reach out, get the help you need and don’t wait, and reclaim your life and there is a lot of help out there. | For those who come forward that may not have their religion or their church or their family’s support once they come forward, you can make a new family, and reach out, get the help you need and don’t wait, and reclaim your life and there is a lot of help out there. |
| If you need support you can call 1800 Respect on 1800 737 732, Adults Surviving Child Abuse on 1300 657 380 or Lifeline on 13 11 14. A full list of support services and websites can be found here. | If you need support you can call 1800 Respect on 1800 737 732, Adults Surviving Child Abuse on 1300 657 380 or Lifeline on 13 11 14. A full list of support services and websites can be found here. |
| 2.19am GMT | 2.19am GMT |
| 02:19 | 02:19 |
| "I hope we’ve shown everyone that when you face the truth with dignity, you really can achieve so much," abuse survivor David Ridsdale says. | "I hope we’ve shown everyone that when you face the truth with dignity, you really can achieve so much," abuse survivor David Ridsdale says. |
| David Ridsdale, who is the nephew and victim of notorious paedophile priest Gerald Francis Ridsdale, says he wonders why Pell didn’t assist him when he rang him for help. He told reporters: | David Ridsdale, who is the nephew and victim of notorious paedophile priest Gerald Francis Ridsdale, says he wonders why Pell didn’t assist him when he rang him for help. He told reporters: |
| I hope we’ve shown everyone that when you face the truth with dignity, you really can achieve so much. We have worked so hard to do that, and I think what we have been through over the years, all of us, to have pulled together to pull this off is a testament – don’t ever underestimate broken people. | I hope we’ve shown everyone that when you face the truth with dignity, you really can achieve so much. We have worked so hard to do that, and I think what we have been through over the years, all of us, to have pulled together to pull this off is a testament – don’t ever underestimate broken people. |
| Just because you see people in the street and you think there is something wrong with them, stop the judging, you know, pick them up, like we picked each other up, because that is how humanity will go forward, not this hiding, not this power struggle, not this power imbalance, because that is why we refused the first meeting [with Cardinal George Pell] and that is now why we are now going, because we are meeting on a level playing field. | Just because you see people in the street and you think there is something wrong with them, stop the judging, you know, pick them up, like we picked each other up, because that is how humanity will go forward, not this hiding, not this power struggle, not this power imbalance, because that is why we refused the first meeting [with Cardinal George Pell] and that is now why we are now going, because we are meeting on a level playing field. |
| The meeting with Pell will be held tomorrow morning at 11.30am Rome time. Given it’s 3.3oam Rome time now, that’s only a few hours away for the exhausted survivors. Ridsdale says of the meeting: | The meeting with Pell will be held tomorrow morning at 11.30am Rome time. Given it’s 3.3oam Rome time now, that’s only a few hours away for the exhausted survivors. Ridsdale says of the meeting: |
| There are a few things we will say, but we as a group have made a commitment to ourselves to be diplomatic and dignified. | |
| “Don’t ever underestimate broken people.” Survivor David Ridsdale after final day of #Pell testimony #thedrum https://t.co/UsEOIpDLI9 | “Don’t ever underestimate broken people.” Survivor David Ridsdale after final day of #Pell testimony #thedrum https://t.co/UsEOIpDLI9 |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 2.34am GMT | |
| 2.13am GMT | 2.13am GMT |
| 02:13 | 02:13 |
| Abuse survivor Paul Levey has broken down addressing the media in Rome. It took a lot for him to get there, as he suffers from a medical condition which makes it difficult for him to fly. He required a 24-hour stopover. He implores people to tie a ribbon to their fence to show support for child sexual abuse victims around the world, as part of a movement called Loud Fence. | Abuse survivor Paul Levey has broken down addressing the media in Rome. It took a lot for him to get there, as he suffers from a medical condition which makes it difficult for him to fly. He required a 24-hour stopover. He implores people to tie a ribbon to their fence to show support for child sexual abuse victims around the world, as part of a movement called Loud Fence. |
| My name is Paul Levey and I would like to thank all the survivors who have made this journey to Rome to hear Cardinal Pell testify. | My name is Paul Levey and I would like to thank all the survivors who have made this journey to Rome to hear Cardinal Pell testify. |
| We are like many cogs that make a clock turn. In strength of mind, we are like brothers. I would like to thank the people who came with us to make sure we stayed safe and well. I would also like to say a special thank you to my partner Michelle who has been on this journey with me for 20 years. | We are like many cogs that make a clock turn. In strength of mind, we are like brothers. I would like to thank the people who came with us to make sure we stayed safe and well. I would also like to say a special thank you to my partner Michelle who has been on this journey with me for 20 years. |
| Last of all, I would like to thank everybody at home who has shown us that we have the support of Australia and the world behind us, and I would like to thank the people of Rome for making us welcome in their beautiful country, and last of all, everybody I would like you to tie some ribbons on your house, on your gates, on your fence for Loud Fence. | Last of all, I would like to thank everybody at home who has shown us that we have the support of Australia and the world behind us, and I would like to thank the people of Rome for making us welcome in their beautiful country, and last of all, everybody I would like you to tie some ribbons on your house, on your gates, on your fence for Loud Fence. |
| Paul Levey is one of the abuse survivors from Ballarat now in Rome to watch Pell give his evidence. pic.twitter.com/9u7omIKwD4 | Paul Levey is one of the abuse survivors from Ballarat now in Rome to watch Pell give his evidence. pic.twitter.com/9u7omIKwD4 |
| The survivors made it to Rome after lawyers for Pell said he was too unwell to fly to Australia to give evidence. It prompted a large fundraising campaign to raise money to send survivors and a support network of counsellors to Rome. You can read about that campaign, which raised more than $200,000, here. | The survivors made it to Rome after lawyers for Pell said he was too unwell to fly to Australia to give evidence. It prompted a large fundraising campaign to raise money to send survivors and a support network of counsellors to Rome. You can read about that campaign, which raised more than $200,000, here. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 2.18am GMT | at 2.18am GMT |
| 2.02am GMT | 2.02am GMT |
| 02:02 | 02:02 |
| Ballarat sexual abuse survivor Tony Wardley addresses media in Rome. | Ballarat sexual abuse survivor Tony Wardley addresses media in Rome. |
| Tony Wardley says: | Tony Wardley says: |
| First of all I want to thank my wife and family who have stuck by me. Secondly, I want to thank the people of Ballarat, Australia and the world who donated money so we have a voice. It is the responsibility of all humanity to protect children, not to stand by and pass the buck. | First of all I want to thank my wife and family who have stuck by me. Secondly, I want to thank the people of Ballarat, Australia and the world who donated money so we have a voice. It is the responsibility of all humanity to protect children, not to stand by and pass the buck. |
| I hope this doesn’t seem like a Catholic-bashing exercise, but religions – all religions who worship their God or gods – must realise the messengers are only messengers, they are not above everyone else. I would like to thank the media for amplifying our voices. | I hope this doesn’t seem like a Catholic-bashing exercise, but religions – all religions who worship their God or gods – must realise the messengers are only messengers, they are not above everyone else. I would like to thank the media for amplifying our voices. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 2.05am GMT | at 2.05am GMT |
| 1.59am GMT | 1.59am GMT |
| 01:59 | 01:59 |
| To recap the final hour of evidence: | To recap the final hour of evidence: |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 2.03am GMT | at 2.03am GMT |
| 1.44am GMT | 1.44am GMT |
| 01:44 | 01:44 |
| Thats it, Pell has finished his four nights of evidence. He walks out without looking at survivors, again. | Thats it, Pell has finished his four nights of evidence. He walks out without looking at survivors, again. |
| 1.41am GMT | 1.41am GMT |
| 01:41 | 01:41 |
| The evidence concludes | The evidence concludes |
| Pell’s lawyer points out that it was Pell who handed paedophile priest Peter Searson a letter telling him to resign. | Pell’s lawyer points out that it was Pell who handed paedophile priest Peter Searson a letter telling him to resign. |
| Duggan: “What was his response to you telling him that, or handing him a letter requesting his resignation?” | Duggan: “What was his response to you telling him that, or handing him a letter requesting his resignation?” |
| Pell: “... he wasn’t at all pleased.” | Pell: “... he wasn’t at all pleased.” |
| Duggan: “And your response was, ‘Retire and resign’.” | Duggan: “And your response was, ‘Retire and resign’.” |
| The questioning of Pell has now finished and Pell has been told he will not be required further. | The questioning of Pell has now finished and Pell has been told he will not be required further. |
| Cd. Pell says when he tried to fire Searson "Rome found against me" but "I just ignored the Roman decision." #CARoyalComm | Cd. Pell says when he tried to fire Searson "Rome found against me" but "I just ignored the Roman decision." #CARoyalComm |
| Melissa Davey with you here. Stay with us for a recap to the day’s events and reaction from survivors. | Melissa Davey with you here. Stay with us for a recap to the day’s events and reaction from survivors. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 1.42am GMT | at 1.42am GMT |
| 1.35am GMT | 1.35am GMT |
| 01:35 | 01:35 |
| A long week for all involved. | A long week for all involved. |
| If the royal commission into child abuse wraps up as planned in 40mins Cardinal Pell will have sat through 19 hours of questioning. | If the royal commission into child abuse wraps up as planned in 40mins Cardinal Pell will have sat through 19 hours of questioning. |