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| Cardinal George Pell testifies to child sexual abuse royal commission from Rome, day two – live | Cardinal George Pell testifies to child sexual abuse royal commission from Rome, day two – live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 9.23pm GMT | |
| 21:23 | |
| Indeed. | |
| "According to today’s standards that would be clearly insufficient, it was then" #Pell on transfer of offending priests without counselling | |
| 9.21pm GMT | |
| 21:21 | |
| Pell maintains he didn’t know the circumstances around why pedophile priest, Gerald Ridsdale, was moved from parish to parish. Remember, Pell was assistant priest at Ballarat East at the time, and also spent some time living with Ridsdale. He said he knew Ridsdale was being moved around, but suspected it may have been to broaden his experience. | |
| However, he admits that the pattern of moving him so frequently around was “unusual”. The commission has previously heard that rather than dealing with perpetrators or suspected perpetrators, the church just moved them to other parishes. | |
| Furness: “Now, the fact that it was somewhat unusual would, I suggest, give rise to some discussion about why he was moving in a pattern that was somewhat unusual, do you agree with that?” | |
| Pell: “One would presume that. I can’t remember any such discussion. It would depend a bit on the attitude of the bishop as to whether he just made this clear that he wanted this to happen. So to summarise, I don’t remember such discussions, but by the same token, the pattern of movements even by the standards of the time, is some what unusual.” | |
| Updated | |
| at 9.22pm GMT | |
| 9.15pm GMT | |
| 21:15 | |
| Furness isn’t letting Pell get away with short, ‘yes’ and ‘no’ answers. | |
| Furness: “And Ridsdale was appointed to Inglewood.” | |
| Pell: “Yes.” | |
| Furness: “Now, it’s again the case, isn’t it, that Bishop Mulkearns and Monsignor Fiscalini moved Ridsdale toInglewood knowing of the complaint by [abuse victims] BWA?” | |
| Pell: “That is correct.” | |
| Furness: “And again, what is your view of that conduct?” | |
| Pell: “I repeat, it’s unacceptable.” | |
| Furness: “Just tell us why it’s unacceptable.” | |
| Pell: “Because of the risk that it presented to the children in Inglewood and that was exacerbated by the fact it doesn’t seem as though any effort was made to withdraw Ridsdale, at least for a period, from counselling or advice or help.” | |
| 9.11pm GMT | |
| 21:11 | |
| The evidence begins | |
| Counsel assisting, Gail Furness, has opened by questioning Pell about evidence given by a child sex abuse victim, identified only as BWA. She’s also askign about notorious pedophile, Father Gerald Ridsdale, who committed more than 130 offences against children as young as four between the 1960s and 1980s. | |
| Furness seems to be going towards asking Pell about why Ridsdale, given abuse allegations against him, was simply moved from parish to parish rather than be reported to police. | |
| Furness; “Firstly there’s reference to a letter from Father Ridsdale applying for a position in Port Fairy which becomes vacant and then if we can turn to the next page you see a reference there to Ridsdale being appointed to Apollo Bay.” | |
| Pell: “Yes.” | |
| Furness: “Now, from the statement of BWA, he said that he told [Father] Brophy who he said told Monsignor Fiscalini about a serious assault by Ridsdale. So it seems, doesn’t it, from this document that Bishop Mulkearns and Monsignor Fiskilini moved Ridsdale to Apollo Bay with knowledge of that earlier complaint about Ridsdale.” | |
| Pell: “That is correct.” | |
| Furness: “And what is your view of the conduct of Bishop Mulkearns and Monsignor Fiskalini in that regard?” | |
| Pell: “That is unacceptable.” | |
| Back at the #RoyalCommission in to child sexual abuse this morning to hear #Pell's second day of testimony pic.twitter.com/JNOTm9L2kl | |
| 9.01pm GMT | |
| 21:01 | |
| Pell has just arrived at the Hotel Quirinale in Rome, where he is giving his evidence. It’s about 10pm in Rome, and Pell met Pope Francis during the day. | |
| “I’ve got the full backing of the Pope,” he tells reporters. | |
| Cardinal #Pell has walked past victims, arriving in the hearing room for his second day of evidence. Now taking his seat. @SBSNews | |
| Fairfax reports that the Pope “may accept Pell’s enforced resignation in June, if evidence to Australia’s royal commission links him to the relocation of priests suspected of paedophilia”: | |
| Pope Francis and Cardinal Pell met face to face at the Vatican on Monday, just hours after the Australian cleric’s first session giving evidence by video link to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. | |
| The Vatican gave no details of the meeting, but Corriere della Serra reported it was one of a regular series of “di cartelli” briefings the Pope gets from department heads. | |
| Cardinal Pell is the Vatican’s prefect of the Secretariat for the Economy – he described himself to the Commission as the “treasurer” of the Vatican, and is widely called the third most powerful man in the Holy See. | |
| Corriere said it was “difficult to imagine” that the interview would not have touched on the cardinal’s video evidence to the Commission which took place late on Sunday night, Rome time. | |
| Read the Fairfax story here. | |
| Updated | |
| at 9.13pm GMT | |
| 8.57pm GMT | |
| 20:57 | |
| Reporter Ben Doherty is in the commission hearing in Sydney, which will kick off shortly. He’s been speaking to protesters this morning who have gathered in central Sydney where the royal commission hearing is taking place. Ben writes: | |
| They are wearing the blue shirts of their organisation, the Care Leavers Australia Network, and carrying colourful placards calling on the prime minister to establish a national redress scheme, and urging witnesses “Tell the truth to the Royal Commission”. Others are broader: “Every child deserves a safe and happy childhood: MAKE IT HAPPEN”. | |
| The Care Leavers Australia Network is engaging in some old-fashioned pamphleteering outside the commission, distributing leaflets calling on the prime minister to establish a National Redress Scheme for victims of abuse. Their statement reads: | |
| “Whatever redress scheme is developed, priority must be given to survivors who were abused as children in ‘closed’ institutions where they lived 24/7. These include orphanages, children’s homes, residential ‘care’, youth training centres, foster families and mental institutions. Whether run by government, churches, or charities, children in these institutions were absolutely at the mercy of cruel and predatory brutes. | |
| They children were: separated from their parents full-time; isolated from the community; afraid and alone; had no-one to turn to in their time of need. They couldn’t tell police. They couldn’t tell their families. They were the children of the state and the state betrayed their trust.” | |
| Demonstrators at Farrer Place, outside the royal commission. Cardinal Pell to appear again today. pic.twitter.com/buScIL8GvW | |
| Updated | |
| at 9.12pm GMT | |
| 8.54pm GMT | |
| 20:54 | |
| We’re about 10 minutes away from Pell’s evidence beginning. | |
| Day one largely went over Pell’s upbringing in Ballarat, his various appointments within the diocese there, including as assistant priest at Ballarat East from 1973 until 1984, and his role as the episcopal vicar for education, overseeing Catholic schools in the region. | |
| It will be interesting to see where counsel assisting, Gail Furness, takes her questioning today, having now got much of the background out of the way. Furness also yesterday took Pell through a long list of names of known abusers, and those who complained about the abusers, as she tried to establish what Pell knew. | |
| We have three more days left of questioning, including today. | |
| Updated | |
| at 9.12pm GMT | |
| 8.46pm GMT | 8.46pm GMT |
| 20:46 | 20:46 |
| News.com.au reports that the Italian press has given the child sex abuse royal commission and Pell’s evidence “modest coverage, but enough to please the survivors who have travelled to Rome to have their voices heard”. | |
| Until now, the media in Italy has largely ignored the commission, seeing it very much as an Australian-only issue, news.com.au’s Victoria Craw reports from Rome: | |
| But the appearance of Cardinal Pell, the Vatican’s high-profile equivalent of the treasurer, has propelled it as a top issue, with most of the national dailies recording the hearing. | But the appearance of Cardinal Pell, the Vatican’s high-profile equivalent of the treasurer, has propelled it as a top issue, with most of the national dailies recording the hearing. |
| The Italian press has largely remained silent on the abuse claims; yesterday they noted Cardinal Pell had admitted the church had made “enormous mistakes” in how it handled issues but their was no proof to implicate him in anyway. | The Italian press has largely remained silent on the abuse claims; yesterday they noted Cardinal Pell had admitted the church had made “enormous mistakes” in how it handled issues but their was no proof to implicate him in anyway. |
| La Repubblica gave the hearing a half page spread and noted that, while Cardinal Pell has consistently denied “with strength” any knowledge of wrong doing, the Australian public considered him guilty. They also found it hard to believe he could not have known what was going on. | La Repubblica gave the hearing a half page spread and noted that, while Cardinal Pell has consistently denied “with strength” any knowledge of wrong doing, the Australian public considered him guilty. They also found it hard to believe he could not have known what was going on. |
| Il Messaggero highlighted that thousands of children had been abused by the clergy in Australia. | Il Messaggero highlighted that thousands of children had been abused by the clergy in Australia. |
| Updated | |
| at 9.10pm GMT | |
| 8.28pm GMT | 8.28pm GMT |
| 20:28 | 20:28 |
| Protesters from the Care Leavers Australia Network [CLAN] have set up outside the commission in Sydney – they’ve been there since 6.30am. | |
| Frank abused at #StPatricks #College #Ballarat with favourite #CLAN sign #MarkTwain pic.twitter.com/mwBOGPRYhh | Frank abused at #StPatricks #College #Ballarat with favourite #CLAN sign #MarkTwain pic.twitter.com/mwBOGPRYhh |
| Overall, survivors from Clan are disappointed in Pell’s evidence yesterday, saying it wasn’t transparent enough. They’re hopeful Pell will be pressed more today about what he did when he finally realised that abuse had been occurring, even if he had by then moved on from his position in Ballarat. | |
| #Survivors disappointed with #GeorgePell evidence -well done #TrishCharter #StJoseph's #Orphanage #Goulburn https://t.co/WzY0V21jEF | #Survivors disappointed with #GeorgePell evidence -well done #TrishCharter #StJoseph's #Orphanage #Goulburn https://t.co/WzY0V21jEF |
| This van has made its way to Sydney pic.twitter.com/BM8OgPOT9J | This van has made its way to Sydney pic.twitter.com/BM8OgPOT9J |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 9.05pm GMT | |
| 8.22pm GMT | 8.22pm GMT |
| 20:22 | 20:22 |
| The Guardian’s correspondent in Rome, Stephanie Kirchgaessner, writes that the Vatican “used to be impermeable to horrific stories of child sexual abuse by priests – and complicit in attempts to whitewash the perpetrators’ reputations”. | The Guardian’s correspondent in Rome, Stephanie Kirchgaessner, writes that the Vatican “used to be impermeable to horrific stories of child sexual abuse by priests – and complicit in attempts to whitewash the perpetrators’ reputations”. |
| But an unexpected confluence of extraordinary events has changed all that this week. The film Spotlight, the tale of the Boston Globe’s dogged investigation into clerical sexual abuse, won Hollywood’s most coveted prize of the Oscar for best picture. | But an unexpected confluence of extraordinary events has changed all that this week. The film Spotlight, the tale of the Boston Globe’s dogged investigation into clerical sexual abuse, won Hollywood’s most coveted prize of the Oscar for best picture. |
| More importantly, hours before the Oscar win was announced, one of the most senior officials within the Vatican hierarchy, Cardinal George Pell of Australia, admitted under oath for the first time that he had heard that an Australian Catholic schoolteacher may have engaged in “paedophilia activity”, but never followed up on the “one or two fleeting references” he heard about the “misbehaviour”. | More importantly, hours before the Oscar win was announced, one of the most senior officials within the Vatican hierarchy, Cardinal George Pell of Australia, admitted under oath for the first time that he had heard that an Australian Catholic schoolteacher may have engaged in “paedophilia activity”, but never followed up on the “one or two fleeting references” he heard about the “misbehaviour”. |
| The teacher in question, Edward Dowlan, a Christian Brother, was later convicted of abusing 20 boys and is serving a six-year prison sentence. | The teacher in question, Edward Dowlan, a Christian Brother, was later convicted of abusing 20 boys and is serving a six-year prison sentence. |
| Read Stephanie’s full piece here. | Read Stephanie’s full piece here. |
| 8.19pm GMT | 8.19pm GMT |
| 20:19 | 20:19 |
| Welcome to day two of our live coverage of the child sex abuse royal commission, with Cardinal George Pell again due to testify in the next half hour or so. | Welcome to day two of our live coverage of the child sex abuse royal commission, with Cardinal George Pell again due to testify in the next half hour or so. |
| There has been a range of coverage and reaction to Monday’s evidence overnight. Much of it focused on Pell’s acknowledgment that the church’s response to child sex abuse allegations was “scandalous” and a “catastrophe”, and Pell’s admission that although he heard rumours of priests abusing, the inclination was to believe the accused rather than the victims. | |
| Guardian Australia’s David Marr filed this piece of analysis from day one, writing that since his last appearance in the box, Pell has engaged a team of first-rate lawyers. Marr says: | |
| Perhaps they’ve encouraged him to reflect more deeply on his years in Ballarat when he returned from Oxford with a great career before him in the church. | Perhaps they’ve encouraged him to reflect more deeply on his years in Ballarat when he returned from Oxford with a great career before him in the church. |
| “My memory is sometimes fallible,” he told the commission. But there seems so much more there than had been supposed. This is encouraging. And the details he gave on Monday save Pell from the fate of simply being disbelieved. | “My memory is sometimes fallible,” he told the commission. But there seems so much more there than had been supposed. This is encouraging. And the details he gave on Monday save Pell from the fate of simply being disbelieved. |
| He had heard rumours. Parents raised the issue of abuse with him. So did one or two students. Even priests spoke about it, not as gossip – Pell still deplores gossip – but while “discussing church life”. | He had heard rumours. Parents raised the issue of abuse with him. So did one or two students. Even priests spoke about it, not as gossip – Pell still deplores gossip – but while “discussing church life”. |
| Discussing each other’s sexual proclivities, asked Furness? To which the cardinal replied with a hint of reproach, “I very rarely indulged in any such discussions.” | Discussing each other’s sexual proclivities, asked Furness? To which the cardinal replied with a hint of reproach, “I very rarely indulged in any such discussions.” |
| While correcting the impression he didn’t have a clue what was going on back then, Pell left the impression of being remarkably incurious. He seems not to have interrogated his sources. He gave no evidence of investigating the grim suspicions that were raised with him. | While correcting the impression he didn’t have a clue what was going on back then, Pell left the impression of being remarkably incurious. He seems not to have interrogated his sources. He gave no evidence of investigating the grim suspicions that were raised with him. |
| Melissa Davey with you here. You can share your thoughts with me on Twitter or on Facebook, and I’ll do my best to answer any of your questions. You can catch up with yesterday’s evidence as it happened here. | Melissa Davey with you here. You can share your thoughts with me on Twitter or on Facebook, and I’ll do my best to answer any of your questions. You can catch up with yesterday’s evidence as it happened here. |
| Stay with us. | Stay with us. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 9.06pm GMT |