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| Cardinal George Pell testifies to child sex abuse royal commission from Rome – live | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 9.19pm GMT | |
| 21:19 | |
| The commission has begun with Pell clarifying his position within the Vatican. | |
| This exchange occurred between Pell and counsel assisting, Gail Furness; | |
| Furness: What is your functionas prefect of the secretariat,Cardinal? | |
| Pell: Something equivalent to a Treasurer. | |
| Furness: So the treasurer for the Vatican? Is that right? | |
| Pell: Yes, for the Holy See. | |
| Furness: And is it the case that you have a delegation of some sort to be able to expend funds on behalf of the Vatican or is your remit unlimited? | |
| Pell: My remitis certainly not unlimited. I answer to the council for the economy, an international body of 15 head cardinals and seven lay people. They are somethinglike the university Senate towhom I must answer. | |
| Furness: Now, Cardinal, you’re often described as the number third person in the Vatican. Is that accurate? | |
| Pell: I wouldn’t say it was. People like to make these hypothetical lists. Some people would see the financial affairsof the Vatican as very low onthe list. | |
| Furness: How would you describe yourself, Cardinal? | |
| Pell: I wouldn’t get into that game at all. I’m a senior official in the Roman. | |
| Furness: You said some would see the financial affairs of theVatican as very low, I take it you don’t share that view? | |
| Pell: I think it’s very important that church money is used efficiently, that the donations are used for the running of the church and for the helping of the core, that they’re not wasted. | |
| Pell swears to tell the truth pic.twitter.com/TfZBNTofHd | |
| Updated | |
| at 9.21pm GMT | |
| 9.10pm GMT | |
| 21:10 | |
| Stephanie Kirchgaessner, the Guardian’s Rome correspondent reports; | |
| “The Verdi Room at the Hotel Quirinale is almost full - not packed - with journalists, survivors and their supporters, and quite a few priests - and Pell, looking rather sullen, is about to start testifying. | |
| One of the possibly unintended consequences of Pell’s decision to stay here in Rome and testify is that it has brought Rome’s expert Vaticanisti - journalists who closely cover the Roman Catholic Church - out in full force. | |
| Among the survivors is one in a green shirt - he declined to be interviewed by the Guardian because we are not technically allowed to interview survivors inside the Verdi Room - and on the shirt is a picture of young boy, presumably a picture taken at the time that he was being abused. It is a striking image.” | |
| 9.00pm GMT | |
| 21:00 | |
| Waiting for Cardinal George Pell. | |
| On this stormy night in Rome, waiting for #CardinalPell pic.twitter.com/HbuWI6RpMe | |
| 8.47pm GMT | 8.47pm GMT |
| 20:47 | 20:47 |
| Pell’s sister, Margaret Pell, is in Rome to support her brother. | Pell’s sister, Margaret Pell, is in Rome to support her brother. |
| She spoke to reporters briefly a few hours ago. Asked what Pell was doing, she replied; “He’s resting today, preparing for tonight. He’s praying”. | She spoke to reporters briefly a few hours ago. Asked what Pell was doing, she replied; “He’s resting today, preparing for tonight. He’s praying”. |
| Asked how he was feeling, she replied; “Well how would you feel?” | Asked how he was feeling, she replied; “Well how would you feel?” |
| Tensions are running high. | |
| According to News Ltd; An Australian TV crew has formally complained to the royal commission as their cameraman was “crash tackled” by security detail as he attempted to film Cardinal George Pell’s backdoor entrance to the hearings. | |
| Shortly after 7pm local time, Cardinal Pell and his entourage were still debating whether to arrive at the front of Hotel Quirinale or the back gardens entrance before electing on the latter. | |
| A security detail of plain clothed police and others were dispatched to the back gates of the hotel’s gardens but were surprised to see a cameraman from SBS Australia there while most of the world press were out front. | |
| Italian Police reviewing Aus TV vision after Pell's heavies strong arm media outside #royalcommission in Rome. pic.twitter.com/ObHOq1uWdd | Italian Police reviewing Aus TV vision after Pell's heavies strong arm media outside #royalcommission in Rome. pic.twitter.com/ObHOq1uWdd |
| It’s about 15 minutes now until Pell’s evidence is due to begin. If you have any questions throughout, tweet me @MelissaLDavey and I’ll do my best to answer. You can also follow reporter Stephanie Kirchgaessner who is in Rome and at the hearing. | |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 9.04pm GMT | |
| 8.39pm GMT | 8.39pm GMT |
| 20:39 | 20:39 |
| Stephanie Kirchgaessner has alerted me to this piece by veteran Vatican-watcher, John Allen; | Stephanie Kirchgaessner has alerted me to this piece by veteran Vatican-watcher, John Allen; |
| It’s undoubtedly an exaggeration to suggest that the entire nation of Australia will come grinding to a halt next Monday at 8 a.m. local time, when Cardinal George Pell is set to begin giving live video testimony before a Royal Commission examining child sexual abuse scandals. | It’s undoubtedly an exaggeration to suggest that the entire nation of Australia will come grinding to a halt next Monday at 8 a.m. local time, when Cardinal George Pell is set to begin giving live video testimony before a Royal Commission examining child sexual abuse scandals. |
| Still, it sort of feels like that here right now. | Still, it sort of feels like that here right now. |
| Read the full piece here. | Read the full piece here. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 8.39pm GMT | at 8.39pm GMT |
| 1.53am GMT | 1.53am GMT |
| 01:53 | 01:53 |
| Reporter Stephanie Kirchgaessner with an observation from Rome: | Reporter Stephanie Kirchgaessner with an observation from Rome: |
| I think interesting is the difference in the perception of Pell in Australia vs here in Rome, where he is seen as a victim of a witch hunt and viewed quite sympathetically even by critics of the church. | I think interesting is the difference in the perception of Pell in Australia vs here in Rome, where he is seen as a victim of a witch hunt and viewed quite sympathetically even by critics of the church. |
| Stephanie interviewed abuse survivor Paul Levey. You can read her piece here. | Stephanie interviewed abuse survivor Paul Levey. You can read her piece here. |
| Paul Levey is one of the abuse survivors from Ballarat now in Rome to watch Pell give his evidence. pic.twitter.com/9u7omIKwD4 | Paul Levey is one of the abuse survivors from Ballarat now in Rome to watch Pell give his evidence. pic.twitter.com/9u7omIKwD4 |
| Updated | |
| at 8.56pm GMT | |
| 1.53am GMT | 1.53am GMT |
| 01:53 | 01:53 |
| Here is a piece from David Marr about the questions George Pell must answer over the next few days. | Here is a piece from David Marr about the questions George Pell must answer over the next few days. |
| An excerpt; | An excerpt; |
| Cardinal George Pell is bold. Priests have told the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse over and over again that they knew something was going on back then and now regret doing little more than passing the awful news up the line. | Cardinal George Pell is bold. Priests have told the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse over and over again that they knew something was going on back then and now regret doing little more than passing the awful news up the line. |
| They left it to others. | They left it to others. |
| That’s not Pell’s position. He says he knew nothing – nothing while he was a priest in Ballarat about the paedophiles around him and little about these men and their victims in his years as an auxiliary bishop in Melbourne. | That’s not Pell’s position. He says he knew nothing – nothing while he was a priest in Ballarat about the paedophiles around him and little about these men and their victims in his years as an auxiliary bishop in Melbourne. |
| He was never in the loop. No one warned him. No one complained to him. He didn’t read that letter or this report. It never came up at meetings. There’s nothing in the minutes. There’s nothing in the files. According to the cardinal, he rose through the ranks in a state of nearly perfect ignorance while – as he now acknowledges with remorse – systematic cover-ups allowed paedophile priests to prey on innocent children. | He was never in the loop. No one warned him. No one complained to him. He didn’t read that letter or this report. It never came up at meetings. There’s nothing in the minutes. There’s nothing in the files. According to the cardinal, he rose through the ranks in a state of nearly perfect ignorance while – as he now acknowledges with remorse – systematic cover-ups allowed paedophile priests to prey on innocent children. |
| Read Marr’s full piece here. | Read Marr’s full piece here. |
| 1.45am GMT | 1.45am GMT |
| 01:45 | 01:45 |
| Why this appearance by Pell is important | Why this appearance by Pell is important |
| As we wait for the commission to begin, some background about why this appearance by Pell is so pivotal. | As we wait for the commission to begin, some background about why this appearance by Pell is so pivotal. |
| Pell has given evidence before the commission twice before. The questions asked of him related to the archdiocese of Melbourne and the way the Catholic church handled and investigated allegations of child sexual abuse via its internal scheme, known as the Melbourne Response. The first time Pell gave his evidence in person, and the second time, in 2015, via videolink, in an appearance plagued by technical difficulties. | Pell has given evidence before the commission twice before. The questions asked of him related to the archdiocese of Melbourne and the way the Catholic church handled and investigated allegations of child sexual abuse via its internal scheme, known as the Melbourne Response. The first time Pell gave his evidence in person, and the second time, in 2015, via videolink, in an appearance plagued by technical difficulties. |
| This time, things are much different. | This time, things are much different. |
| Abuse survivor Robert House in Ballarat with a painting by his friend and supporter, James Money. pic.twitter.com/u7AVWYAAyU | Abuse survivor Robert House in Ballarat with a painting by his friend and supporter, James Money. pic.twitter.com/u7AVWYAAyU |
| A lot more has emerged throughout commission hearings since Pell last appeared and he now has a lot more to answer than just how the archdiocese of Melbourne responded to and investigated allegations of child sexual abuse within its institutions during the period he served as auxiliary bishop. | A lot more has emerged throughout commission hearings since Pell last appeared and he now has a lot more to answer than just how the archdiocese of Melbourne responded to and investigated allegations of child sexual abuse within its institutions during the period he served as auxiliary bishop. |
| The previous two Ballarat-focused hearings of the royal commission heard evidence that while he was an assistant priest at Ballarat East from 1973 to 1983, Pell allegedly was involved in moving a notorious pedophile priest, Gerald Ridsdale, between parishes. Pell also worked at the parish during a period when several Catholic priests were later found to have assaulted young boys, the commission heard, raising questions about how, given his senior position, he could not have known. For a time, he lived with Ridsdale. | The previous two Ballarat-focused hearings of the royal commission heard evidence that while he was an assistant priest at Ballarat East from 1973 to 1983, Pell allegedly was involved in moving a notorious pedophile priest, Gerald Ridsdale, between parishes. Pell also worked at the parish during a period when several Catholic priests were later found to have assaulted young boys, the commission heard, raising questions about how, given his senior position, he could not have known. For a time, he lived with Ridsdale. |
| Ridsdale was not an occasional abuser. This excellent piece by Debi Marshall, published for SBS News, gives a horrific insight into the abuse of children that occurred under Ridsdale’s care. | Ridsdale was not an occasional abuser. This excellent piece by Debi Marshall, published for SBS News, gives a horrific insight into the abuse of children that occurred under Ridsdale’s care. |
| One of Ridsdale’s victims was his nephew David Ridsdale, who gave evidence at the first of the commission’s Ballarat hearings. He alleged that he told Pell about the abuse he had endured, but Pell encouraged him to keep quiet. Pell has strongly denied the allegations. He has also said he was unaware of abuse occurring within the diocese until after he left. | One of Ridsdale’s victims was his nephew David Ridsdale, who gave evidence at the first of the commission’s Ballarat hearings. He alleged that he told Pell about the abuse he had endured, but Pell encouraged him to keep quiet. Pell has strongly denied the allegations. He has also said he was unaware of abuse occurring within the diocese until after he left. |
| These allegations and incidents will no doubt be brought up by the royal commission led by Justice Peter McClellan throughout Pell’s hearing, which is expected to go across four days. | These allegations and incidents will no doubt be brought up by the royal commission led by Justice Peter McClellan throughout Pell’s hearing, which is expected to go across four days. |
| What is unlikely to be brought up by the commission is allegations leaked by Victoria police to the media that Pell is himself under investigation for allegations of grooming and molesting children. Pell has vehemently denied the allegations. It is important to know that a royal commission does not have prosecutor powers, or the ability to compel people overseas to give evidence. It can refer matters it believes warrants it to police and at its close provides a comprehensive list of recommendations to governments and institutions to ensure errors of the past are prevented from happening again. | What is unlikely to be brought up by the commission is allegations leaked by Victoria police to the media that Pell is himself under investigation for allegations of grooming and molesting children. Pell has vehemently denied the allegations. It is important to know that a royal commission does not have prosecutor powers, or the ability to compel people overseas to give evidence. It can refer matters it believes warrants it to police and at its close provides a comprehensive list of recommendations to governments and institutions to ensure errors of the past are prevented from happening again. |
| Some more extensive background about the allegations, and the importance of Ballarat, can be found here. | Some more extensive background about the allegations, and the importance of Ballarat, can be found here. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 1.52am GMT | at 1.52am GMT |
| 1.45am GMT | 1.45am GMT |
| 01:45 | 01:45 |
| Welcome to the Guardian’s live coverage of Cardinal George Pell’s evidence before Australia’s royal commission into institutional responses into child sexual abuse. | Welcome to the Guardian’s live coverage of Cardinal George Pell’s evidence before Australia’s royal commission into institutional responses into child sexual abuse. |
| Melissa Davey is with you and I’ll be watching the evidence closely and reporting on key moments throughout the day. We’ll also have David Marr providing analysis, reporting from Ben Doherty in Sydney where the royal commission hearing is being held and reporting from Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Rome, who is with a small group of child sexual abuse survivors who travelled from Australia to watch Pell give evidence in person from the Hotel Quirinale. | Melissa Davey is with you and I’ll be watching the evidence closely and reporting on key moments throughout the day. We’ll also have David Marr providing analysis, reporting from Ben Doherty in Sydney where the royal commission hearing is being held and reporting from Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Rome, who is with a small group of child sexual abuse survivors who travelled from Australia to watch Pell give evidence in person from the Hotel Quirinale. |
| The royal commission into institutional responses into child sexual abuse, tasked by the Australian federal government in 2013 to take on the massive job of independently investigating child sexual abuse within churches, foster care organisations, sporting clubs and a range of other institutions throughout Australia, will today once again turn its attention to the diocese of Ballarat and to the archdiocese of Melbourne. More about those case studies in posts to come. | The royal commission into institutional responses into child sexual abuse, tasked by the Australian federal government in 2013 to take on the massive job of independently investigating child sexual abuse within churches, foster care organisations, sporting clubs and a range of other institutions throughout Australia, will today once again turn its attention to the diocese of Ballarat and to the archdiocese of Melbourne. More about those case studies in posts to come. |
| So why is Pell giving evidence from Rome? | So why is Pell giving evidence from Rome? |
| Back in May, after new evidence emerged, Pell said he would be willing to fly to Australia to give evidence in person once again. But, days before he was due before the commission in December, his lawyers tendered medical documents to the commission saying he was too unwell to fly. The commission waited until February to see if Pell would have recovered enough to fly, but his lawyers again tendered documents that said he was not. The commission subsequently said he could give evidence via videolink from Rome. | Back in May, after new evidence emerged, Pell said he would be willing to fly to Australia to give evidence in person once again. But, days before he was due before the commission in December, his lawyers tendered medical documents to the commission saying he was too unwell to fly. The commission waited until February to see if Pell would have recovered enough to fly, but his lawyers again tendered documents that said he was not. The commission subsequently said he could give evidence via videolink from Rome. |
| I'm in Ballarat for the #CARoyalCommission, day 1 of part three of the hearings. pic.twitter.com/nHswe1qI8l | I'm in Ballarat for the #CARoyalCommission, day 1 of part three of the hearings. pic.twitter.com/nHswe1qI8l |
| The decision prompted a gofundme campaign to send survivors and a support network of psychologists and counsellors to Rome, with more than $200,000 raised in days. Comedian Tim Minchin also released a song calling on Pell to come home and drawing attention to the campaign. | The decision prompted a gofundme campaign to send survivors and a support network of psychologists and counsellors to Rome, with more than $200,000 raised in days. Comedian Tim Minchin also released a song calling on Pell to come home and drawing attention to the campaign. |
| You can tweet your thoughts throughout the morning to me @MelissaLDavey. | You can tweet your thoughts throughout the morning to me @MelissaLDavey. |
| Stay with us. | Stay with us. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 8.52pm GMT |